Registration request for new subtags for Portuguese orthographies

Mon Mar 23 22:12:36 CET 2015

Michael,

There is a difference between a process-related statement of "continued blocking" and insinuation of misogynistic and criminal activity "beating your wife". This is an international mailing list. I think off-hand remarks should be kept within norms that are professional and fit for the public record.

Doug produced an excellent summary of the arguments and responses. The current request from you is:

>Why don’t you write up the summary I requested?
I've reposted below updated versions of the original requests including references to word list and other sources that have been contributed to this discussion. Note also that I have updated the subtag request for the 1945 orthography as suggested by João.

>And address in some way the issue of user expectations within a standard with massive and conflicting options?

I've incorporated comments from Doug to the effect that the subtag is intended to identify text that is intended to exhibit, all or some of the characteristics of the Portuguese Orthographic Agreement of 1990 (Acordo Ortográfico de 1990).

Andrew

--------

1. Name of requester:
	Andrew Glass
2. E-mail address of requester:
	anglass at microsoft.com
3. Record Requested:
	Type: variant
	Subtag: ao1990
	Description: Intended to identify written content that exhibits, by intent, all or some of the characteristics of the Portuguese Orthographic Agreement of 1990 (Acordo Ortográfico de 1990). 
	Prefix: pt
	Comments: Portuguese orthography conventions established in 1990 but not brought into effect until 2009

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
	The 'ao1990' subtag is intended to identify written content that exhibits, by intent, all or some of the characteristics of the 1990 Portuguese orthographic reform.
	It is recognized that the 1990 reform encompasses a wide variety of changes. Not all content that exhibits some of these changes will necessarily exhibit all of them.
 	It is recognized that not all Portuguese-speaking nations, and not all individual users of the Portuguese language, agree with all parts of the reform. This situation is similar to other orthographic reforms throughout history. Registration of the 'ao1990' subtag is not intended to make any statement as to the benefits of the reform itself.
 	Incorrectly or inconsistently spelled text, or mistagged text, is always possible. It is recognized that registration of this subtag does not create a new problem in this regard.

5. Reference to published description of the language (book or article):

	The full text of the spelling reform:
	http://www.portaldalinguaportuguesa.org/?action=acordo&version=1990

	Spelling Reform Guide – a government-approved guide that contains some background and the full text of the spelling reform:
	http://www.bparah.azores.gov.pt/PDFs/acordo+orto/guia+do+acordo+ortografico.pdf

	PDF called “What changes and what doesn’t change with the spelling reform” authored by the Portuguese Education Ministry
	http://www.dgidc.min-edu.pt/outrosprojetos/data/outrosprojectos/Acordo_Ortografico/Documentos/o_novo_ao.pdf

	Wordlists:
	http://portaldalinguaportuguesa.org/advanced.php?action=browse
	http://natura.di.uminho.pt/download/sources/Dictionaries/wordlists/

6. Any other relevant information:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_Orthographic_Agreement_of_1990

	http://www.ionline.pt/artigos/portugal/tribunal-decide-suspender-acordo-ortografico-exame-prejudicaria-criancas

--------
1. Name of requester:
	Andrew Glass
2. E-mail address of requester:
	anglass at microsoft.com
3. Record Requested:
	Type: variant
	Subtag: colb1945
	Description: Luso-Brazilian Orthographic Convention of 1945 (Convenção Ortográfica Luso-Brasileira de 1945)
	Prefix: pt
	Comments: Portuguese orthography conventions established in 1945 generally in effect until 2009, except in Brazil
4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
	Denotes Portuguese orthography conventions established in 1945.
5. Reference to published description of the language (book or article):

	Wordlists:
	http://natura.di.uminho.pt/download/sources/Dictionaries/wordlists/

6. Any other relevant information:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Portuguese_orthography

--------
1. Name of requester:
	Andrew Glass
2. E-mail address of requester:
	anglass at microsoft.com
3. Record Requested:
	Type: variant
	Subtag: abl1943
	Description: 1943 Portuguese orthographic reform, Academia Brasileira de Letras
	Prefix: pt
	Comments: Denotes conventions established in 1943 and generally used in Brazil until 2009
4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
	Denotes Portuguese orthography conventions established in 1943.
5. Reference to published description of the language (book or article):
	Wordlists:
	http://natura.di.uminho.pt/download/sources/Dictionaries/wordlists/

6. Any other relevant information:
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Portuguese_orthography

-----Original Message-----
From: Ietf-languages [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Michael Everson
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 1:22 PM
To: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
Cc: António Emiliano
Subject: Re: Registration request for new subtags for Portuguese orthographies

Andrew,

I was likewise offended by Peter’s characterization of “continued blocking” on my part when I have been attempting to raise valid issues and have them discussed, and by his summary dismissal of my taking my time before “formally stating” my opinion of the requests. 

Peter and I know each other a good while now and we usually get on quite well. Each can abrade the other, though, and we are well able to work out or differences on our own. 

I should prefer to remain focused on my request that explicit, thorough summary narrative discussion of the three proposals and their sources be produced by supporters of the proposals, in particular in relation to the resolution of considerable ambiguity in identifying what kind of range of options are to be envisioned in the most recent orthography.

Michael

On 23 Mar 2015, at 19:50, Andrew Glass (WINDOWS) <Andrew.Glass at microsoft.com> wrote:

> Michael, 
> 
> I find your comments on this list, offensive, hypocritical, unprofessional, and counter to the process.
> I think you owe Peter an apology.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ietf-languages [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Michael Everson
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 11:43 AM
> To: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> Cc: António Emiliano
> Subject: Re: Registration request for new subtags for Portuguese orthographies
> 
> On 23 Mar 2015, at 18:38, Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
>> Does two weeks begin from when the request was made or from when you decide the request is worthy of approval?
> 
> I am not going to entertain passive-agressive attacks from you, Peter. Kindly back off and be civil. Thank you.
> 
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ietf-languages [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Michael Everson
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 11:25 AM
> To: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> Cc: António Emiliano
> Subject: Re: Registration request for new subtags for Portuguese orthographies
> 
> On 23 Mar 2015, at 18:01, Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
>> Please answer the question: Is it your intent to continue blocking the requests?
> 
> Have you stopped beating your wife?
> 
>> You have several people including people representing several implementations indicating support. Is there something reasonable that can be provided that has not yet been provided? We have projects in development that are on a schedule needing these ASAP.
> 
> Why don’t you check the calendar, Peter? 
> 
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf-languages mailing list
> Ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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