Language subtag modification form for 1694acad (Was: Flavors of Hepburn)

CE Whitehead cewcathar at
Mon Oct 5 21:41:20 CEST 2009

Hi!  Mark, Michael, Doug, and Addison--  


Actually the description field, "Early Modern French," is way too vague (see

for a description of what "early modern France"--and I presume as well, "early modern French"--encompasses; however I checked--the 'comments' come up with Richard Ishida's search utility!




C. E. Whitehead

cewcathar at


Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 13:17:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Language subtag modification form for 1694acad (Was: Flavors of Hepburn)
From: mark at
To: cewcathar at
CC: doug at; ietf-languages at

None of the descriptions are that precise, nor is there particular advantage in trying to add precise descriptions. BCP 47, for example, doesn't describe the precise differences between en-US and en-GB, or between pt-BR and pt-PT.

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:50, CE Whitehead <cewcathar at> wrote:

> From: doug at
> To: ietf-languages at
> CC: cewcathar at
> Subject: Re: Language subtag modification form for 1694acad (Was: Flavors of Hepburn)
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 06:48:53 -0600

> CE Whitehead <cewcathar at hotmail dot com> wrote:
> > Actually, having a date will help to precise the variety, but thank 
> > you for your correction; in Canada and France, although accents are 
> > normalized by the end of the saweventeenth century 'oi' for 'ai' 
> > persists throughout the 18th century; and, at least in 
> > Canada/Louisiana/New France, I believe that 'oy' for 'oi' persists as 
> > well as 'parolle' for 'parole'--'speech' (this latter is strictly 
> > orthographic I think).
> >
> > The variety of "Early Modern French" that I described ( 'oi' for 'ai'; 
> > the past participle ending with e and the accent aigu being spelled 
> > without any accent as ez, er, or e, depending; 'loing' for 
> > 'loin'--'far;' 'coste' for 'cote'--'side'; finally, before a 't', e 
> > with accent aigu may be spelled 'es' as may e with a circumflex!) 
> > however seems to end largely around or just before 1700.
> > ...
> > A quick check at atilf suggests that 'oi' continued to be used for 
> > 'ai' until the end of the eighteenth century actually:
> This research is actually helpful to prove my point, that the various 
> attributes ascribed to "Early Modern French" died out at considerably 
> different times depending on the source, and that this language variety 
> is better defined by these attributes than by trying to specify strict 
> starting and ending dates. I recommend no change.
Hmm, I would like a more precise description.  "Early Modern French; its features include alternate forms for the past participle, 'oi' for 'ai,' and 'oste' for 'o[with circumflex]te.'"
However I am sure that this description field is a bit long, so we can postpone this for now--and worry about the other subtags we are considering.

C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar at 

> --
> Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA |
> RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ ­

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