call of order

Harald Tveit Alvestrand harald at
Thu Mar 17 13:32:38 CET 2005


I take it that you are appealing to me in the role of list owner/moderator.

I must regretfully conclude that you have the wrong impression: most of the 
current tension and anger on the list is caused by the way in which you 
choose to couch your arguments, your seeming unwillingness to listen to 
others, and your continued insistence on dragging in issues (like IDN) that 
are irrelevant to the particular purpose of this list.

Consider this your public warning. If you choose to continue to behave in a 
fashion which continues to cause disruption of the list, I, acting as list 
manager, will accede to the multiple requests for your suspension, and 
suspend your posting rights to ietf-languages at, citing the 
principles set forth in RFC 3934.

                 Harald Alvestrand

--On 17. mars 2005 07:29 +0100 "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey at> 

> Dear Harald,
> I start being bored by all this.
> I defend the rights of my nation and language, and of other nations and
> languages.
> I also defend the interests of the users and the work of my organization
> against too ostensible competing commercial interests and political
> influences.
> This lead me to:
> - disagree with the way this list is organized which does not match RFC
> 3066.
> - disagree with the result that a small group of persons of similar
> origin leads its debates.
> - disagree with a Draft that group presented and to ask it to be
> presented in an IETF way for more exposure, what is now underway
> It also happens that I disagree with the restriction of the technical
> analysis of the concerned problem, what is my right. In this I know I
> represent a point of view of large number outside the IETF community.
> This obviously lead to tensions. This list not being moderated, even if I
> am patient (may be too much) it obliged me to some affirmative responses
> to rude ad-hominems. I made sure that they were correctly weighted in
> copying relays to governments of several countries. Their comments and
> advises have never objected. To the contrary I received information
> permitting me to better assess some of the technical, commercial,
> political and private interests at stake (what explains a certain change
> in my positions). I must say I understand, and I respect them in most of
> the cases. If mines are also equally considered.
> I personally only regret the misunderstanding with Michael Eversom who is
> a professional I respect but who has been assigned a very difficult task.
> I object to the task, not the person.
> I therefore ask you to step in for two things as the owner of this list:
> 1. to make standard netiquette rules respected. The disclosure of private
> mail is not an acceptable practice. Ad-hominem can only degenerate.
> 2. to reorganize this list in accordance with your own RFC 3066 and to
> get it the IANA conformance and exposure which will bring experts from
> all the concerned languages, countries and concerned commercial interests.
> I thank you for your attention.
> jfc
> At 05:47 17/03/2005, James Seng wrote:
>> For the record, I have no problem with Mark sending this email to the
>> list. 1. I did not see any reply from Jiankang to indicate he understood
>> (or  otherwise) what you implied.
>> 2. Sorry my english isn't that good enough to know there is a difference
>> between "little to do" and "nothing to do" - in my world, those means
>> the  same to me.
>> Harald, as General AD, I request you initiate RFC 3683 on JFC as
>> requested  by several members of the lists. And yes, I support it.
>> -James Seng

More information about the Ietf-languages mailing list