[R-C] Charter update
Matt Mathis
mattmathis at google.com
Wed Aug 15 02:53:36 CEST 2012
> /• Reasonable share of bandwidth when competing with RMCAT traffic, other
> real-time media protocols, TCP and other congestion control protocols. A
> 'reasonable share' means that no flow has a significantly negative impact
> [RFC5033] on other flows and at minimum that no flow starves./
This does not work. The hedging language for TCP in the previous
text ("idealy") is required because protecting RMCAT from TCP (and
other protocols such as LEDBAT) can't be solved in general within the
scope of this WG. We can try, and there are some partial solutions
that will help some of the time, but there are no general solutions
that really solve this problem.
Adding the definition of reasonable share is fine.
Thanks,
--MM--
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Alan Kay
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Bob Briscoe <bob.briscoe at bt.com> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> A few suggestions for minor changes, but otherwise, no big objections:
>
> s/• Reasonable share of bandwidth when competing with RMCAT traffic, other
> real-time media protocols, and ideally also TCP and other protocols/
>
> s/The work will be guided by the advice laid out in RFC 5405 (UDP usage
> guidelines) and RFC 2914 (congestion control principles)./
> /The work will be guided by the advice laid out in RFC 5405 (UDP usage
> guidelines), RFC 2914 (congestion control principles), and RFC5033
> (Specifying New Congestion Control Algorithms)./
>
> s/The following topics are out of scope:/
> /The following topics are out of scope of this working group, on the
> assumption that work on them will proceed elsewhere:/
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> At 12:31 13/08/2012, Stefan Holmer wrote:
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> /Stefan
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Michael Welzl <michawe at ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I sense a lot of tacit approval ;-)
>
> Is this now ready to be shipped to the IESG?
>
>
> Okay, I'm trying to be provocative, to get some feedback... but seriously, I
> think that there wasn't a lot of debate (in the sense of disagreement) about
> the charter, just constructive suggestions. I do believe that I have
> incorporated most, if not all of them in this version. So I'd like to try
> using a deadline: could we say that I ship this off on Wednesday 15 August
> unless I receive suggestions for changes by then?
>
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
>
>
> On 10. aug. 2012, at 13:02, Michael Welzl wrote:
>
>> See below for an update of the charter:
>>
>> - some minor fixes, e.g. wording in the list of deliverables
>> - the most significant change: updated milestone list
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *******************************************************************************************
>>
>>
>> RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques (rmcat)
>>
>> Status: Proposed Working Group
>> Last Updated: 2012-08-10
>>
>> Chair(s):
>> TBD
>>
>> Transport Area Director(s):
>> Wesley Eddy <wes at mti-systems.com>
>>
>> Transport Area Advisor:
>> Wesley Eddy <wes at mti-systems.com>
>>
>> Mailing Lists: TBD (until establishment, we use
>> rtp-congestion at alvestrand.no)
>>
>> Description of Working Group
>>
>> In today's current internet, part of the traffic is delivery of
>> interactive real time media, often in the form of sets of media flows using
>> RTP over UDP.
>> There is no generally accepted congestion control mechanism for this kind
>> of data flow.
>> With the deployment of applications using the RTCWEB protocol suite, the
>> number of such flows is likely to increase, especially non-fixed-rate flows
>> such as video or adaptive audio. There is therefore some urgency in
>> specifying one or more congestion control mechanisms that can find general
>> acceptance.
>>
>> Congestion control algorithms for interactive real time media may need to
>> be quite different from the congestion control of TCP: for example, some
>> applications can be more tolerant to loss than delay and jitter. The set of
>> requirements for such an algorithm includes, but is not limited to:
>> • Low delay and low jitter for the case where there is no competing
>> traffic using other algorithms
>> • Reasonable share of bandwidth when competing with RMCAT traffic,
>> other real-time media protocols, and ideally also TCP and other protocols
>> • Effective use of signals like packet loss and ECN markings to
>> adapt to congestion
>>
>> The working group will:
>> • Develop a clear understanding of the congestion control
>> requirements for RTP flows, and document deficiencies of existing mechanisms
>> such as TFRC with regards to these requirements.
>> • Define interactions between applications and RTP flows to enable
>> specifying requirements such as per-packet priorities.
>> • Determine if there is an appropriate means to define standard
>> RTP/RTCP extensions for carrying congestion control feedback, similar to how
>> DCCP defines congestion control mechanisms, and if so, document such
>> extensions as standards-track RFCs.
>> • Develop techniques to detect, instrument or diagnose failing to
>> meet RT schedules due to failures of components outside of the charter
>> scope, possibly in collaboration with IPPM.
>> • Develop a mechanism for identifying and controlling groups of
>> flows.
>> • Define evaluation criteria for proposed mechanisms, and publish
>> these as an Informational RFCs.
>> • Find or develop candidate congestion control algorithms, verify
>> that these can be tested on the Internet without significant risk, and
>> publish one or more of these as Experimental RFCs.
>> • Publish evaluation criteria and the result of experimentation with
>> these Experimental algorithms on the Internet
>> • Once an algorithm has been found or developed that meets the
>> evaluation criteria, and has a satisfactory amount of documented experience
>> on the Internet, publish this algorithm as a Standards Track RFC. There may
>> be more than one such algorithm.
>>
>> The work will be guided by the advice laid out in RFC 5405 (UDP usage
>> guidelines) and RFC 2914 (congestion control principles).
>>
>> The following topics are out of scope:
>> • Circuit-breaker algorithms for stopping media flows when network
>> conditions render them useless; this work is done in AVTCORE;
>> • Media flows for non-interactive purposes like stored video
>> playback; those are not as delay sensitive as interactive traffic;
>> • Defining active queue management; modifications to TCP of any
>> kind; and
>> • Multicast congestion control (common control of multiple unicast
>> flows is in scope).
>> • Topologies other than point-to-point connections. Implications on
>> multi-hop connections will be considered at a later stage.
>>
>> The working group is expected to work closely with the RAI area, including
>> the underlying technologies being worked on in the AVTCORE and AVTEXT WGs,
>> and the applications/protocol suites being developed in the CLUE and RTCWEB
>> working groups.
>> It will also liaise closely with other Transport area groups working on
>> congestion control, and with the Internet Congestion Control Research Group
>> of the IRTF.
>>
>> Deliverables
>> • Requirements for congestion control algorithms for interactive
>> real time media - Informational RFC
>> • Evaluation criteria for congestion control algorithms for
>> interactive real time media - Informational RFC
>> • RTCP extensions for use with congestion control algorithms -
>> Standards-track RFC
>> • Interactions between applications and RTP flows - Informational
>> RFC
>> • Identifying and controlling groups of flows - Standards-track RFC
>> • Techniques to detect, instrument or diagnose failing to meet RT
>> schedules - Informational RFC
>> • Candidate congestion control algorithm for interactive real time
>> media - Experimental RFCs (likely more than one)
>> • Experimentation and evaluation results for candidate congestion
>> control algorithms - Informational RFC
>> • A recommended congestion control algorithm for interactive real
>> time media - Standards-track RFC
>>
>> Milestones
>> • NN NNNA: (chartering + 1 month) Publish first drafts of
>> requirements and evaluation criteria
>> • NN NNNB: (=A) publish first drafts of RTCP extensions for use with
>> congestion control algorithms and interactions between applications and RTP
>> flows
>> • NN NNNC: Adopt first congestion control candidate as WG draft
>> • NN NNND: (B + 2 months) Publish first draft of identifying and
>> controlling groups of flows
>> • NN NNNE: (A + 4 months) Submit requirements and evaluation
>> criteria to IESG as Informational
>> • NN NNNF: (B + 6 months) Submit RTCP extensions for use with
>> congestion control algorithms to IESG for Standards-track publication, and
>> submit interactions between applications and RTP flows to IESG as
>> Informational
>> • NN NNNG: (E + 2 months) Submit first congestion control candidate
>> to IESG for Experimental publication
>> • NN NNNH: (D + 6 months) Submit identifying and controlling groups
>> of flows to IESG for Standards-track publication
>> • NN NNNI: (G + 3 months) First draft of evaluation results
>> • NN NNNJ: (=I) First draft of standards-track congestion control
>> • NN NNNK: (=J) First draft of techniques to detect, instrument or
>> diagnose failing to meet RT schedules
>> • NN NNNL: (K + 6 months) Submit techniques to detect, instrument or
>> diagnose failing to meet RT schedules to IESG as Informational
>> • NN NNNM: (J + 8 months) Submit congestion control to IESG for
>> Proposed Standard
>> (time from chartering to end of charter is 18 months)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rtp-congestion mailing list
>> Rtp-congestion at alvestrand.no
>> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtp-congestion
>
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> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe, BT Innovate & Design
>
>
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