Portuguese subtags (Re: Ietf-languages Digest, Vol 104, Issue 6)

António H F P A Emiliano (FCSH/UNL) ah.emiliano at fcsh.unl.pt
Tue Sep 13 10:19:34 CEST 2011


Hello. Good morning.

On 2011/09/12, at 23:36, ietf-languages-request at alvestrand.no wrote:

> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 18:36:21 -0400
> From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar at hotmail.com>
> To: <ietf-languages at iana.org>
> Subject: 1945 subtag - Re: Ietf-languages Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <SNT142-W44E0B4D5A438FE5B0BEE40B3020 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi, it's my understanding also from previous conversation on the  
> list and from what I read elsewhere that the 1931 agreement came  
> out of the 1911 changes
> and that it was re-implemented in 1943; then more changes came in  
> 1945;

No. 1945 was the official recognition of the 1943 proposals.

>  so I only see 3 agreements.
>
> Then of course there is pre-1911
>
> (Since I am not Portuguese, someone may, if he/she wishes, tell me  
> if my info. is accurate or not.  From what I could read of http:// 
> dre.pt/pdfgratis/1931/05/12000.pdf  ; I did manage to go through  
> the 7 paragraphs!  these changes -- the replacement of Greek  
> consonant clusters such as ph with f, and the elimination of silent  
> consonants, excepting things like the double r, seem to be quite  
> similar to the changes proposed  the 1904
> l?oeuvre Orthographe nationale ["National Orthography Treatise"],  
> by Aniceto dos Reis Gon?alves Viana; I've pasted below this my  
> previous reply to Joao and others with the link to the article  
> describing Aniceto dos Reis Goncalves Viana's work and the three  
> reforms, in case anyone needs that. )

Vianna was one of the 2 masterminds behind the reform.

> But I personally think 3 subtags, plus if you like a pre-1911 tag  
> (with no hyphen as Philip says), will probably do.

1911 is a true (indisputable) watershed re the creation of a stable  
orthographic system *in Portugal* (in Brazil via the 1931 agreement).
1945 is a milestone (BR adhered to the 1945 reform, but disavowed it  
2 years later).
1990 has yet to be implemented but assuming that it will is a major  
reform.
All the other post-1911 “reforms” are minor adjustments.

I very much doubt that a 1931 subtag will serve any real purpose;  
1943 is equivalent to 1945 (1943 was the date of the convention/ 
conference that took place, 45 is the date of the Portuguese decree  
that approves and enforces the reform that came out of that  
conference). 1931 was in fact a Luso-Brazilian agreement, but its  
practical effect was to adopt in both countries the Portuguese 1911  
reform (with minor changes/adjustments).

After due consideration, I would say that the minimal and optimal set  
of subtags for encoding Portuguese written texts is:

pre1911
1911bou - Bases da Ortografia Unificada
1945colb - Convenção Ortográfica Luso-Brasileira
1990aolp - Acordo Ortográfico da Língua Portuguesa

I confess that I am not very comfortable with the idea of suddenly  
having all these PT subtags. But my main argument remains: if you  
introduce a 1990 subtag then you MUST perforce also have 1945 and 1911.
It is actually easy to encode any given text with these 4. I myself  
would not know what to do with 1931 or 1943.
On the other hand if you peek at the so-called Portuguese Wikipédia  
or at some Portuguese newspapers you will find many examples of mixed  
spelling, because most people who have embraced the 1990 reform do  
not know how to apply it in practice (for lack of an official  
reference tool).

There is still a potential snag regarding the 1990 subtag. I have  
addressed this issue in my earliest comments and have not read a  
satisfactory reply or suggestion. What should the meaning of the date  
be?
The 1990 reform was signed in 1990 by representatives of the  
governments of 7 PT-speaking countries; it was approved by the  
Portuguese Parliament in 1991; it was ratified by the Portuguese  
president also in 1991; ; it lay dormant for almost 20 years; it was  
officially introduced in PT in 2008; it will in principle be fully  
enforced in PT in 2014 or 2015. I sincerely hope that no one uses  
1990aolp as a simple chronological tag (1911 and 1945 are  
chronological tags, like the German tags -- they refer to the date of  
official approval and implementation; 1990 does not).

Best regards. - A.



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