LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: pinyin

Phillips, Addison addison at amazon.com
Tue Aug 5 04:17:31 CEST 2008


+1. The only reason to “deprecate” a Prefix is because the subtag itself is deprecated (you can’t really deprecate an [informative] prefix---either it can be used or it can’t). If we’re going to deprecate ‘zh’, we’ll have to do it in draft-4646bis, since I rather doubt ISO 639 is going to withdraw or deprecate it.

I sense that this thread verges on being an LTRU topic.

Addison

Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Lab126

Internationalization is not a feature.
It is an architecture.

From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:48 PM
To: Broome, Karen
Cc: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no; Kent Karlsson
Subject: Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: pinyin

My example was apparently not clear. You wouldn't deprecate the record containing the prefix, you'd be deprecating some subtag that is contained in the prefix.

Mark

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Broome, Karen <Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com<mailto:Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com>> wrote:

This is the real use case, I believe. In a one-to-many relationship between the record and the number of prefixes, individual prefixes would need to be deprecated, not the whole record.



Karen



From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no> [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no>] On Behalf Of Kent Karlsson
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:47 PM
To: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages at alvestrand.no>
Subject: RE: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: pinyin



Hmm, no; I think one might want to deprecate a prefix *as a prefix*, while not deprecate the prefix as such.

Type: variant
Subtag: fubar
Description: Fubar
Prefix: zh [DEPRECATED]

Prefix: cmn

while not deprecating the language subtag zh as such.



    /kent k



________________________________

From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no> [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no>] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 1:27 AM
To: Broome, Karen
Cc: Frank Ellermann; ietf-languages at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages at alvestrand.no>
Subject: Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: pinyin

Here would be a (made up) example.

In 2005, the following gets added

%%





Type: variant





Subtag: fubar





Description: Fubar





Added: 2006-09-18





Prefix: sr-CS





Comments: Fubar dialect of Serbian used only in CS










Now, later on in 2005,  CS gets deprecated as below.

%%





Type: region





Subtag: CS





Description: Serbia and Montenegro





Added: 2005-10-16





Deprecated: 2006-10-05





Comments: see RS for Serbia or ME for Montenegro

At this point, it is unnecessary to have structure to mark sr-CS as being a deprecated prefix of fubar, since a record that that prefix points (CS) to has been deprecated. What would be necessary, however, is to add either "sr-RS" or "sr-ME", or even "sr" as prefixes of fubar so that it would have some valid prefixes.

Mark

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Broome, Karen <Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com<mailto:Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com>> wrote:

If you deprecate X in the example below and not Y, can you give me an example of the IANA Registry Record for this scenario?



Karen



From: mark.edward.davis at gmail.com<mailto:mark.edward.davis at gmail.com> [mailto:mark.edward.davis at gmail.com<mailto:mark.edward.davis at gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:07 PM
To: Broome, Karen
Cc: Frank Ellermann; ietf-languages at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages at alvestrand.no>

Subject: Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: pinyin



There is no structure in 4646 or 4646bis for deprecating a prefix X for a subtag Y. However, the same effect would be achieved by just deprecating X, so I don't think we need such structure.

Mark

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Broome, Karen <Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com<mailto:Karen_Broome at spe.sony.com>> wrote:

Hmm. But deprecation occurs on the entire record. Is there a way to indicate that a single prefix is deprecated but not the tag? If we can add prefixes later, we ought to be able to deprecate them too. But I'm not sure how we'd do this in the current structure.



Karen



From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no> [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no>] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 3:53 PM
To: Frank Ellermann

Cc: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no<mailto:ietf-languages at alvestrand.no>

Subject: Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: pinyin



No. According to the RFC, we can add other prefixes later.

Mark

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Frank Ellermann <nobody at xyzzy.claranet.de<mailto:nobody at xyzzy.claranet.de>> wrote:

Randy Presuhn wrote:

> "why didn't they use '-pinyin'?"

Just a theoretical thought, if we take -pinyin with prefix
zh-Latn- now there's no way to get rid of the prefix later.

So if folks later want "pinyin" with prefix cmn-Latn- and
others, but without zh-Latn-, they'd be forced to invent
a new variant, say -pinyin2, and that would allow them to
deprecate -pinyin in favour of -pinyin2.

If that is exactly what you want (later, when cmn exists),
you could use -pinyin1 now, and deprecate it in favour of
the later "real" -pinyin with the "real" prefix cmn-Latn-
instead of the slightly "unreal" zh-Latn-pinyin1 possible
today.

 Frank

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