what are the real problems

[Eric Rosen]

Geoff> I do see that  part of the rationale of the existence  of the IETF is
Geoff> to provide  a means of  balancing the various interests  of consumers
Geoff> and competing vendors 

The "balancing  of interests"  is a political  matter that is  orthogonal to
the issue of  technical quality.  People will have  different opinions about
how well the  marketplace balances the various interests,  of course.  There
have been many cases in which small groups of people use closed processes to
"balance  interests" according  to their  own  view of  the proper  balance.
Rarely does this work out well.  I'd remind you that the spread of TCP/IP is
due to the market demand for interoperable standards, NOT due to any attempt
on the part of the IETF to manipulate the market. 

Harald> if, somehow,  we came to the  point where we split  the IETF between
Harald> "those  who  are   on  a  mission  to  protect   the  users  against
Harald> exploitation by the vendors" and "those who are on a mission to help
Harald> the vendors  exploit the  users", I'd reluctantly  have to  join the
Harald> first camp.

Any suggestion that if  you're not in one of these camps  you must be in the
other would indeed be useless demagoguery.

As  long as the  IESG asserts  the right  to make  decisions that  go beyond
issues of technical quality and correctness, we have a problem.