OPEN ISSUE: Appeals Path

[hardie at qualcomm.com]

At 4:22 PM -0700 5/16/03, Dave Crocker wrote:
>Margaret,
>
>
>MW> I think that a well-defined appeals process is needed for any
>MW> activity the size and scope of the proposed Improvement WG.
>
>There is no higher appeal than the IETF Plenary.

Dave,

Could you expand on how that actually works?

I see the IETF plenary as a very important tool for ensuring that anyone in
the community has a voice that carries beyond a particular working
group or area.  I am not sure that it can be an effective appeals
body or what process it would use if we decided it should be one.
Fundamentally, the time allotted to Plenary meetings by
our current schedule is very short, and the issues we are dealing
with very complex.  Even assuming that we limited folks' time
and trips to the microphone, we seem unlikely to resolve
any substantive issues inside a meeting.  The one appeal
I heard in my short term on the IAB took a great deal of both
focused time discussing the issue and even more wording
a response; I don't think we have that in Plenary meetings.

To put it another way, the open mic at a plenary ensures that
issues can be raised, but it seems a poor context for actually
resolving the issues or appeals.

It also fundamentally misses our usual point that participating in
the IETF can take place outside the face-to-face meetings, as it requires
those not attending a particular meeting to make some other
arrangements for participation.  With the jabber conferences,
it is easier, though time shifting and other barriers remain.

			regards,
				Ted Hardie


>Worrying about invoking "normal" appeals processes entirely misses the
>nature of this IETF change effort.
>
>This effort is not a typical technical specification effort, so let's
>not pretend that it must conform to our typical working group process.
>
>
>
>d/
>--
>  Dave Crocker <mailto:dcrocker at brandenburg.com>
>  Brandenburg InternetWorking <http://www.brandenburg.com>
>  Sunnyvale, CA  USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>, <fax:+1.866.358.5301>