modest suggestion for how to proceed

[Keith Moore]

> Your suggestion is quite logical, but demonstrates the original problem
> with forming a "problems" working group:  A committee to study problems
> then engenders sub-committees to study sub-problems.
>
> We spend all of our time studying the problem and none fixing it.

well, if 60 days is "all of our time" then perhaps we should give up.  
the best way to waste time that I know of is to try to solve a problem 
without understanding that problem.

> We should note that the Yokohama IETF was when the seriousness of our
> problems reached rough consensus, based on the traffic to the plenary
> microphone.
>
> That was *eight* months ago, folks.
>
> Yet here we are, entertaining new proposals for new efforts to study 
> the
> problem further, and no effort to actually do the fixing.

that's because we've been wasting most of our time so far.  just like 
we normally do in IETF - assume that if we argue for long enough 
without any structure or sense of direction that somehow, magically, 
we'll come up with a good solution to whatever problem it is we're 
trying to solve.

and when someone proposes a constructive way to move forward, that 
person is derided for threatening to waste time.  perhaps we'd rather 
argue than work productively?

Keith