The IETF's problems

[Keith Moore]

> > just because a government passes a law doesn't mean IETF should
> > expend its energy to try to help them.
> 
> There is a little more going on than just one government passing a
> law.

yes, there are lots of governments trying to conduct mass surveillance
on people.  that still doesn't mean IETF should help them.

> And it's certainly not about helping governments, it's about helping 
> service providers and smaller vendors. 

no, it's about not wasting IETF energy by investing it in areas where
it can only do harm.

> Cisco is trying to do the 
> responsible thing here by coming to the IETF to standardize this
> stuff.

Cisco is trying to get IETF backing for an irresponsible activity. 
What Cisco does is its own business, but IETF shouldn't be goaded
into supporting it just because Cisco does it - particuarly when
nothing useful can come of it and when it is inconsistent with IETF's
goals.

> > now, can we please get back to the topic of this list?
> 
> This is a prime example of the topic of this list: the IETF is unable 
> to determine what it should work on and what it shouldn't work on in a
> satisfactory way.

it's a prime example of why we shouldn't work on something just because
large vendors want us to.