Killing old/slow groups - transition thinking

[Randy Bush]

> Return-path: <mrw@windriver.com>
> Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] ident=mailnull)
> 	by rip.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10)
> 	id 18Llfl-000NcR-00
> 	for randy@rip.psg.com; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:47:45 -0800
> Received: from unknown-1-11.windriver.com ([147.11.1.11] helo=mail.wrs.com)
> 	by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2)
> 	id 18Llfl-0006V5-00
> 	for randy@psg.com; Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:47:45 -0800
> Received: from IDLEWYLDE.windriver.com ([147.11.233.8])
> 	by mail.wrs.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA05290;
> 	Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:46:42 -0800 (PST)
> Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021210093748.01e3d2b8@mail.windriver.com>
> X-Sender: mrw@mail.windriver.com
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
> In-Reply-To: <E18LlT7-000Fii-00@roam.psg.com>
> References: <A16A3EE4D4CA124FADC7987B1AC89FE41F2785@esebe022.ntc.nokia.com>
>  <20021209091738.3622b7fe.mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us>
>  <tsly96zm35k.fsf@konishi-polis.mit.edu>
>  <20021209203553.0f39727e.mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us>
>  <105140000.1039509157@askvoll.hjemme.alvestrand.no>
>  <5.1.0.14.0.20021210062429.02a2f030@mail.windriver.com>
>  <5.1.0.14.0.20021210081204.02b52120@mail.windriver.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0
> 	tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08
> 	version=2.43
> X-Spam-Level: 
> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:46:32 -0500
> To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
> From: Margaret Wasserman <mrw@windriver.com>
> Subject: Re: Killing old/slow groups - transition thinking
> Cc: problem-statement@alvestrand.no
> 
> 
> At 06:34 AM 12/10/2002 -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
> > > I have been focused on off-loading the IESG, in an effort to help
> > > them find time to more actively lead and manage the IETF, instead
> > > of being buried in a slew of administrative details.
> >
> We have all been told, on many occasions, how overworked the
> IESG is.  At the IESG plenary in Atlanta, we were shown slides
> that indicated that you sometimes need to review up to 2000 pages
> of document in a two-week period, and that wasnt' the first time
> that the problem of too much IESG review work was raised.

i have to do the same or more in my day job.  luckily, those
documents are usually of better technical and editorial quality and
hence are easier to review.  yes, that was a hint.

> It has also been stated or implied on numerous occasions that
> the IESG doesn't have the time (or ability? or willingness?) to
> recruit others to help with this review process and/or offload
> any of your other work.

lots of things have been said, half of them contradict the other
half.  so i try to stick to facts i know.  i have recruited others
to do document review, and i like and deeply appreciate their work.

> It was indicated, in Atlanta and elsewhere, that you do not have
> the time to fully document your existing processes, because you
> have too much other work to do.

due to very unfortunate circumstances, i had to leave atlanta
before the meeting started.  but perhaps you would like to look at
RFC 2026 et alia and draft-iesg-charter-00.txt.

> The IESG has repeatedly been pointed to, by IESG members as well
> as others, as a bottleneck in our processes and as a scaling
> problem for the IETF.

yup.  it's where the buck stops.  having a place where the buck
stops is sure to be a bottleneck.  the real question is evaluation
of the costs and benefits of having that broad-spectrum and deep
review.  having seen the work and timeliness of other sdos which do
not, you may guess why i put most of my sdo engery into the ietf.

> I suppose that there is really a simple question here, and I am
> willing to take any consistent answer from the IESG

i can not speak for the iesg.

>> btw, i also don't buy your previous that the iesg has no actual
>> organizational or line management experience.
> I don't think I said that.

    > They also all have the talents and abilities to be good managers,
    > but they lack the skills which come from training and experience.

randy