(no subject)

Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:42:07 -0600

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It's a different layer. I wouldn't know about an IEEE standard if it bit
my fanny, and as far as I know they're pretty much irrelevant to my
work. But my wallet lives or dies by whether we can get stuff moving in
IETF.

So, one possible problem (putting this in "problemn statement" form) MAY
be (hey, I don't believe this, I'm just THINKING about it)

Problem: We don't know who our customer is. We MAY have become
irrelevant to some set of hardware manufacturers. Is this a problem? Do
we need better understanding here?

or another:

Problem: We produce many uninteresting specifications. Reference point
-- look at the interest SIP has gotten, and it's not REALLY that
interesting, being fundamentally a reapplication of some HTTP and SMTP
design elements to support mediated peer-to-peer communication. IPV6 is
probably "interesting". What else is not either research or obvious
refinement of existing work? What are we really trying to accomplish
here? Are we doing it?

--
Dean
-----Original Message-----
From: problem-statement-admin@alvestrand.no
[mailto:problem-statement-admin@alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Harrington,
David
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:13 AM
To: Problem-Statement@Alvestrand. No
(problem-statement-request@alvestrand.no)
Subject: (no subject)

Hi,

I am the standards czar for Enterasys, and I coordinate resource
allocation for both our IEEE and IETF participation.

The IETF has been shifting into directions that make me question how
relevant the IETF will be to Enterasys in the near future, and for that
matter how relevant it is to Enterasys now. 

I recently needed to prepare a graphic of upcoming standards milestones,
so we could plan our implementation strategy. The point I found
interesting was that the IEEE standards were often implemented
pre-standard and then adjusted as the standard finalized, because
customers demand support for the IEEE standards. The IETF "standards"
sit around for months or years after being put on the standards track,
waiting to see if it actually becomes a useful technology that we should
consider implementing, and whether any customer demand ever develops.

The IEEE obviously produces many standards that are economically viable
out of the gate, while the IETF does a lot of research, and produces
standards that may or may not become economically viable. In hard
economic times, it's pretty hard to get excited over many of the
IETF-produced standards because they do not bring any real benefit to
vendors'customers.

David Harrington
Architect, Office of the CTO
Enterasys Networks

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>It's a=20
different layer. I wouldn't know about an IEEE standard if it bit my =
fanny, and=20
as far as I know they're pretty much irrelevant to my work.&nbsp;But my =
wallet=20
lives or dies by whether we can get stuff moving in =
IETF.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>So,=20
one possible problem (putting this in "problemn statement" form) MAY be =
(hey, I=20
don't believe this, I'm just THINKING about it)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Problem: We don't know who our customer is. We MAY have become =
irrelevant=20
to some set of hardware manufacturers. Is this a problem? Do we need =
better=20
understanding here?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>or=20
another:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Problem: We produce many uninteresting specifications. =
Reference point --=20
look at the interest SIP has gotten, and it's not REALLY that =
interesting, being=20
fundamentally a reapplication of some HTTP and SMTP design elements to =
support=20
mediated peer-to-peer communication. IPV6 is probably "interesting". =
What else=20
is not either research or obvious refinement of existing work? What are =
we=20
really trying to accomplish here? Are we doing it?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>--</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D449210622-05122002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Dean</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
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 <DIV></DIV>
 <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message----- From:=20
 problem-statement-admin@alvestrand.no=20
 [mailto:problem-statement-admin@alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of =
Harrington,=20
 David Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 9:13 =
AM To:=20
 Problem-Statement@Alvestrand. No=20
 (problem-statement-request@alvestrand.no) Subject: (no=20
 subject) </DIV>
 <DIV class=3DSection1>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am the standards czar for Enterasys, and I =

coordinate resource allocation for both our IEEE and IETF=20
 participation.<o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The IETF has been shifting into directions =
that make=20
 me question how relevant the IETF will be to Enterasys in the near =
<SPAN=20
 class=3DGramE>future, and for that matter how relevant it is to =
Enterasys=20
 now. <o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I recently needed to prepare a graphic of =
upcoming=20
 standards milestones, so we could plan our implementation strategy. =
The point=20
 I found interesting was that the IEEE standards were often implemented =

pre-standard and then adjusted as the standard finalized, because =
customers=20
 demand support for the IEEE standards. The IETF =
&#8220;standards&#8221; sit around for=20
 months or years after being put on the standards track, waiting to see =
if it=20
 actually becomes a useful technology that we should consider =
implementing, and=20
 whether any customer demand ever =
develops.<o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The IEEE obviously produces many standards =
that are=20
 economically viable out of the gate, while the IETF does a lot of =
research,=20
 and produces standards that may or may not become economically viable. =
In hard=20
 economic times, it&#8217;s pretty hard to get excited over many of the =
IETF-produced=20
 standards because they do not bring any real benefit to=20
 vendors&#8217;customers.<o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">David=20
 Harrington<o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Architect, Office of the =

  CTO<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Enterasys=20
  Networks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

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