Valencian registration redundant tags; prefixes; more information

[Addison Phillips]

CE Whitehead wrote:
> Hi below is some relevant information from the new RFC 4646 for anyone 
> wishing to register a tag:

Practice writing "subtag". You cannot register a tag.

> 
> first, there is a variant subtag for Nadiza, and  I think Nadiza is a 
> region of Slovenia.  So variant subtags can be used for regions.

It doesn't matter if it is a region or not: Nadiza is a recognizable 
variation in the language Slovenian. It is the case that subtags can be 
regional in nature (witness my own comments on 'valencia').

> 
> But . . .
> 
> the variant subtags cover languages/varieties that are "not associated 
> with an external standard:"

That is NOT what it says. What it says is:

"Variant subtags are not associated with any external standard."

That doesn't mean that they are not influenced by or identical to codes 
taken from external standards. Only that the variant subtags are not 
explicitly tied to any *particular* standard.

> 
> Hence, I think perhaps IF the Valencian variety of the language defined 
> by the ca tag is associated with an external standard, perhaps the 
> appropriate regional tag would be in order!!!

If you want a regional variation not covered by UN M.49 or ISO 3166-1, 
you need a variant.

> * * *
> Tags with two-word codes indicating region (for example a region of 
> China)--

Huh?

> 
> Also a note on the importance of a prefix for a variant subtag, again
> from http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4646.txt :
> 
>   "Variant subtags are usually registered for use with a particular
>   range of language tags.  For example, the subtag 'rozaj' is intended
>   for use with language tags that start with the primary language
>   subtag "sl", since Resian is a dialect of Slovenian.  Thus, the
>   subtag 'rozaj' would be appropriate in tags such as "sl-Latn-rozaj"
>   or "sl-IT-rozaj".  This information is stored in the 'Prefix' field
>   in the registry.  Variant registration requests SHOULD include at
>   least one 'Prefix' field in the registration form."
> 
> * * *

And your point is?

> 
> In addition, there are procedures for handling cases where tags are not 
> being reviewed quick enough (the request for the subtag to indicate the 
> Valencian dialect of the language that people from parts of 
> Spain/Andorras speak is being reviewed in a timely way it seems; but 
> this information may be useful to anyone who does not feel his/her 
> request has been discussed/reviewed in a timely way):

The review isn't the problem here. The problem you have is consensus 
building. There appears to me to be consensus on registering 'valencia'. 
What we're discussing is the exact wording of the description, which 
strikes me as minor.

It would be most useful to actually propose a *specific* description and 
call for consensus on (or against it). Instead of focusing on the 
barrier to completion, you are tilting at getting a different, 
explicitly prohibited, type of subtag registration. Work on what is 
necessary to get what you need: a variant subtag for the Communidad 
Valencia dialect of Catalan/Valencian.


> 
> The above tags seem to use region tags for countries and macro-regions!

Don't get stuck on the word "region". A regional variation can be 
registered---as a variant. That's the way it works. If you can convince 
the ISO 3166-1 MA to register Communidad Valencia, then you can have a 
"region" subtag. Otherwise regional variations in language are 
registered using variants. Notice my wording: "REGIONAL VARIATIONS IN 
LANGUAGE".

> 
> I think Nadiza is a region of Slovenia.  So variant subtags can be used 
> for regions.

This has been stated many times already.

> 
> But . . .
> 
> the variant subtags cover languages/varieties that are "not associated 
> with an external standard:"

> 
>   "Variant subtags are used to indicate additional, well-recognized
>   variations that define a language or its dialects that are not
>   covered by other available subtags.  The following rules apply to the
>   variant subtags:
> 
>   "1.  Variant subtags are not associated with any external standard.
>       Variant subtags and their meanings are defined by the
>       registration process defined in Section 3.5."
> 
> Hence, I think if the Valencian variety of the language defined by the 
> ca tag is associated with an external standard, perhaps the appropriate 
> regional tag would be in order!!!
> 

Don't be daft. The variant subtags as a collection in the registry are 
not associated with any one external standard. Individual ones might be 
"inspired by" or match a particular standard, but the language subtag 
registry takes no notice of that (except perhaps in a comment).

However----the other subtag types are ALL associated with a PARTICULAR 
standard. To get a region subtag, you need to get ISO 3166-1 MA to 
create a code or UN M.49 to do so. That is the ONLY way to get a subtag 
of type "region".

To get a variant subtag that denotes a regional or geographic variation 
in language, what you need is the registration form you've already 
submitted and which is nearly approved.

Addison


-- 
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.