[Ltru] Re: Macrolanguages, countries & orthographies

CE Whitehead cewcathar at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 15 22:27:32 CET 2007


>
>From: CE Whitehead [mailto:cewcathar at hotmail.com]
>
> >> This is absolutely abusing macrolanguage as defined and
> >> intended for use in ISO 639-3. There is no scenario I
> >> can think of in which users would want to consider
> >> resources in English (i.e. what I'm writing in) and Tok
> >> Pisin resources as being in the same language. That's
> >> just silly.
> >
> > I have not studied Tok Pisin, and I can read it easily!!
>
>Whether you can read it easily is completely irrelevant. Tell me one 
>application scenario in which it would make sense to consider English and 
>Tok Pisin to be the same language.

I have none for Tok Pisin and English unless someone has got them both mixed 
together in a document in such a way that it makes sense encoding the 
primary text processing language as a macrolanguage or a collection of 
languages that includes both!

In the case of Middle French and Early Modern French, there are points at 
which they seem to be about perfectly mixed in documents; the cut-off dates 
for one or the other are indeed a bit abitrary as the cut-off also depends 
on the locale and the writer's background.

(Since it has been quite clearly stated that neither fr nor fra applies to 
frm or fro; that these must all be encoded separately, it is indeed I think 
possible at this time to discuss a macrolanguage for at least some of the 
French historical varieties;
but I did not request such a macrolanguage;
I do think in addition that it would be a good idea that, when there are 
clearly related languages, that they could also be encoded as a collection 
at least if not a macrolanguage--once again I am left reviewing the 
definitions of these, if there is a document where the varieties are mixed;
I do still somehow feel that, in addition to creating a registry of all the 
sil languages, this group should be a bit receptive to the needs of 
encoders, especially when the languages are ancient as ancient languages are 
not part of the sil repertoire.)

However I only asked for two variant subtags which would make it easier for 
me to encode the language in a particular document which I want to have 
correctly encoded.


I need a code for the language in a particular document today and I feel 
somehow that you all are trying to prevent languages from being properly 
coded here; that is the feeling I get, that you all have skirted the issue 
and so forth.

Sorry if I feel a bit negatively at this point, but I do.

Best wishes,

--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar at hotmail.com
>
>It's one thing to ask, "How should someone handle coding an Old Czech 
>document at this point?" It's quite another to go off imagining all kinds 
>of ways in which language varieties are related and suppose that we need to 
>create coded entities for various partitions of interrelated varieties. 
>"Let's have a macrolanguage for creoles and pidgins resulting from contact 
>between English and Polynesian languages." "Let's have a macrolanguage for 
>creoles and pidgins resulting from contact between English and West African 
>languages." "Let's have a macrolanguage for all languages that have 
>incorporated loans from Pali or Sanskrit." It's just crazy!
>
>It's by no means clear to me that there are usage scenarios in which Modern 
>English and Old or even Middle English should be considered the same 
>language, but I have no question in my mind that you are completely 
>ignoring the intended purpose of the notion "macrolanguage".
>
>
>Peter
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>Ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
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