[Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German
petercon at microsoft.com
Thu Nov 30 23:59:47 CET 2006
I can tell you that the intent of “gsw” is specifically Swiss German, and that the assumption of having “Alemanic” listed as a name is that some people use that label to refer to specifically to Swiss German. If the latter assumption is incorrect (which appears to be what Mark is saying, then that is a change that the JAC should consider.
But if Martin’s comment is the supporting evidence, then I still find Martin’s comment to be unclear. It’s clear to me what Mark is saying; it’s not clear to me if Martin is saying the same thing.
From: mark.edward.davis at gmail.com [mailto:mark.edward.davis at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:07 AM
To: Peter Constable
Cc: Håvard Hjulstad; iso639-2 at loc.gov; LTRU Working Group; zaiitov at gmail.com; ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee; ietf-languages at iana.org; iso639 at dkuug.dk
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German
Alemanic refers to a broader group of dialects than "Swiss German" (aka Schwyzertuesch) does. So listing them as it does is problematic; it's like listing
ar Arabic; Egyptian Arabic
Personally, I don't care whether it is resolved to be
Alemanic (including Swiss German)
// which is what 639-3 seems to be pointing to
Swiss German (a particular variant of Alemanic)
// which is what the code (gsw) seems to be pointing to
But we need some clarity as to what is meant by the code.
On 11/30/06, Peter Constable <petercon at microsoft.com> wrote:
Martin's comment is somewhat vague: varieties spoken on either side of the border are very similar, et "as soon as you cross the border it's very clearly no longer Swiss German". Does that mean that what is spoken across the border is clearly a different language, or that the label "Swiss German" is clearly not used?
From: Mark Davis [mailto:mark.davis at icu-project.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:00 AM
To: Håvard Hjulstad; iso639-2 at loc.gov
Cc: LTRU Working Group; zaiitov at gmail.com; ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee; ietf-languages at iana.org; iso639 at dkuug.dk
Subject: [Ltru] Alemanic & Swiss German
ISO 639-2 (on http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php) lists the following:
gsw Alemani; Swiss German alémanique
However, there is a "c" missing from Alemanic, and Swiss German is not the same as Alemanic: Swiss German is a type of Alemanic, but there are other types that are not the same as Swiss German.
Quoting Martin Duerst:
"Yes, Swabian is clearly Alemanic. Alemanic and Swiss German are not
the same. There are very close similarities between some dialects in
the north of Switzerland and across the border in Germany, but as
soon as you cross the border, it's very clearly no longer Swiss
German. A label such as "Alemanic; Swiss German", assuming that
both are the same, is clearly wrong. If it's something like
"Alemanic; includes Swiss German", that would be okay."
Can this be corrected so that it does not continue to mislead people?
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