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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>I can tell you that the intent of “gsw”
is specifically Swiss German, and that the assumption of having “Alemanic”
listed as a name is that some people use that label to refer to specifically to
Swiss German. If the latter assumption is incorrect (which appears to be what Mark
is saying, then that is a change that the JAC should consider.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>But if Martin’s comment is the
supporting evidence, then I still find Martin’s comment to be unclear. It’s
clear to me what Mark is saying; it’s not clear to me if Martin is saying the
same thing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Peter Constable<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
mark.edward.davis@gmail.com [mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Davis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 30, 2006
11:07 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Peter Constable<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Håvard Hjulstad;
iso639-2@loc.gov; LTRU Working Group; zaiitov@gmail.com; ISO 639 Joint Advisory
Committee; ietf-languages@iana.org; iso639@dkuug.dk<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ltru] Alemanic &
Swiss German</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Alemanic refers to a
broader group of dialects than "Swiss German" (aka Schwyzertuesch)
does. So listing them as it does is problematic; it's like listing<br>
<br>
ar Arabic; Egyptian Arabic<br>
<br>
Personally, I don't care whether it is resolved to be <br>
<br>
Alemanic (including Swiss German) <br>
// which is what 639-3 seems to be pointing to<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
Swiss German (a particular variant of Alemanic)<br>
// which is what the code (gsw) seems to be pointing to<br>
<br>
But we need some clarity as to what is meant by the code. <br>
<br>
Mark<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 11/30/06, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Peter
Constable</span></b> <<a href="mailto:petercon@microsoft.com">petercon@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Martin's comment is somewhat vague: varieties
spoken on either side of the border are very similar, et "as soon as you
cross the border it's very clearly no longer Swiss German". Does that mean
that what is spoken across the border is clearly a different language, or that
the label "Swiss German" is clearly not used?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'>Peter</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana;color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Mark Davis [mailto:<a
href="mailto:mark.davis@icu-project.org" target="_blank">mark.davis@icu-project.org</a>]
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 30, 2006
9:00 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Håvard Hjulstad; <a
href="mailto:iso639-2@loc.gov" target="_blank">iso639-2@loc.gov</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> LTRU Working Group; <a
href="mailto:zaiitov@gmail.com" target="_blank">zaiitov@gmail.com</a>; ISO 639
Joint Advisory Committee; <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org"
target="_blank">ietf-languages@iana.org</a>; <a href="mailto:iso639@dkuug.dk"
target="_blank">iso639@dkuug.dk</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Ltru] <span name=st
id=st><span class=st>Alemanic</span></span> & Swiss German</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><span id="q_10f39e7fb901e58f_1">
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>ISO
639-2 (on <a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php"
target="_blank">http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php</a>)
lists the following:<br>
<br>
gsw Alemani; Swiss
German alémanique <br>
<br>
However, there is a "c" missing from Alemanic, and Swiss German is
not the same as Alemanic: Swiss German is a type of Alemanic, but there are
other types that are not the same as Swiss German.<br>
<br>
Quoting Martin Duerst: <br>
<br>
</span></font>"Yes, Swabian is clearly <span name=st>Alemanic</span>. <span
name=st>Alemanic</span> and Swiss German are not<br>
the same. There are very close similarities between some dialects in <br>
the north of Switzerland and across the border in Germany, but as<br>
soon as you cross the border, it's very clearly no longer Swiss<br>
German. A label such as "<span name=st>Alemanic</span>; Swiss German",
assuming that <br>
both are the same, is clearly wrong. If it's something like<br>
"<span name=st>Alemanic</span>; includes Swiss German", that would be
okay."<br>
<br>
Can this be corrected so that it does not continue to mislead people? <br>
<br>
Mark Davis<o:p></o:p></p>
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