Request for variant subtag fr 16th-c 17th-c Resubmitted!

[CE Whitehead]

Quoting from Randy Presuhn
"It appears to meet the requirements from RFC 4646.  The argument
against these specific registration requests seems to be that
the language in question is insufficiently distinct from today's
French.  However, it seems to me that the distinction is at least
as great as that involved in "OED" English. The point is that
someone working with these language variants believes he has
a legitimate need to distinguish these variants, and believes
that the distinction should be available to others. Unless the participants
on this list believe the request identifies the same language
variant as an existing subtag, if the request is well-formed and
the references are in order, I think we should accept it, although
I also think that using a string that doesn't have generic connotations
might shorten the discussion.

Randy"

Thanks; the discussion is filling up our boxes; below is my revised request! 
I hope the new versions of the subtags is acceptable.

--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar at hotmail.com

LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM
1. Name of requester:  C. E. Whitehead
2. E-mail address of requester: cewcathar at hotmail.com
3. Record Requested:

Type: Variant
Subtag:  16esiecl
Description: 16th century French (which is the last century of Middle 
French)
Prefix: fr, frm
Preferred-Value:
Deprecated:
Suppress-Script:
Comments:

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
5. Reference to published description
of the language (book or article):

* Joachim du Bellay, La deffence et illustration de la langue francoyse, 
1549; ed critique by Henri Chamard, Geneve, Slatkine Rpt. 1969

* Jean Nicot, "Thresor de la langue francoyse" 1606; ARTFL Project, 
University of Chicago:
http://portail.atilf.fr/dictionnaires/TLF-NICOT/index.htm

6. Any other relevant information:
Also you might see the information about this century in:  Catholic Central 
French,  "The History of the French Language," Detroit Catholic Central 
High: http://www.catholiccentral.net/academics/french/history.html
this is when French became the language of France; the period just before 
was that of the 100 years' war between France and England with some 
borrowing of vocabulary back and forth; it's essentially the same French as 
spoken in the 16th century, just not spoken so widely, but there is a bit of 
spelling variation when compared with the 16th century French.  (Here is an 
example of 15th century French writing by Villon apparently mostly edited 
into modern French:  http://francite.net/education//page89.html; see a more 
original version of Villon's language at:  
http://www.languefrancaise.net/dossiers/dossiers.php?id_dossier=74#b2)



LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM
1. Name of requester:  C. E. Whitehead
2. E-mail address of requester: cewcathar at hotmail.com
3. Record Requested:

Type: Variant
Subtag:  17esiecl
Description: 17th century French, or early Modern French, sometimes with 
elements of Middle French
Prefix: fr, frm
Preferred-Value:
Deprecated:
Suppress-Script:
Comments: combining elements of Middle and Modern French with some New World 
vocabulary and not completely stable

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
5. Reference to published description
of the language (book or article):
* Dictionnaire de l'académe françoise, 4eme ed. 1694; RTFL Project, 
University of Chicago:
http://portail.atilf.fr/dictionnaires/ACADEMIE/index.htm

* Fénelon, François de Salignac de La Mothe (1984), Fenelon's Letter to the 
French Academy : with an introduction and commentary.

* Ayres-Bennett, Wendy (2004), Sociolinguistic variation in 
seventeenth-century France : methodology and case studies.

also:
http://teacherweb.com/FL/Cocoa/CEWhitehead/HTMLPage15.stm


6. Any other relevant information:

for the reference,
http://portail.atilf.fr/cgi-bin/getobject_?p.0:45./var/artfla/dicos/ACAD_1694/IMAGE/ 
[in Le dictionnaire de l'académe françoise, 1694;

note the Academe Fracoise was established in 1635 but the 1694 dictionary 
shows that French in this century had not been completely standardized.

for the reference,
http://teacherweb.com/FL/Cocoa/CEWhitehead/HTMLPage15.stm

notes from description of late 17th century U.S. French:

Grammar Changes

Singular nouns in the nominative may end in "s" as may their adjectives (in 
the middle ages, in Old French, the nominative endings for the plural and 
singular were the reverse of today's endings; the oblique endings for the 
plural and singular are what today's endings, with -s for the plural, are 
based on):

un/uns? isles
  (Fr. Moderne: un île)
semblables
  (Fr. Moderne: semblable)

Spelling/Misspelling
trouver
  'to find,' might be spelled trouve, 'found' ; trouvez, 'you find'; or 
'trouver' 'to find' (trouver and trouve with the accent on the e are 
pronounced identically; that may be why)
note that the common spelling of the past participle, trouve (with the 
accent aigu on the e) at this time was 'trouvez'

Spelling Changes
ai becomes, sometimes oi; ait becomes sometimes oist; êt (and also et and 
ét) becomes sometimes est; ot becomes sometimes ost; îl becomes sometimes 
isl; ui becomes, sometimes uy; and oin becomes oing. Occasionally, v may be 
realized as b, while both s and c may be realized as sc as in "scavoir" (for 
"savoir') and "escrasent" (for 'écrasent'); also dipthongs with i may be 
spelled with y as in "celuy" (for 'celui').
Additionally, ocasionally archaic nominative forms ending in "s" (from Old 
French) might be used!

alesne
(Fr. Moderne "alène," 'awl;' see 
http://portail.atilf.fr/cgi-bin/getobject_?p.0:45./var/artfla/dicos/ACAD_1694/IMAGE/ 
[in Le dictionnaire de l'académe françoise, 1694; this reference was 
supplied by Gardefeu at http://www.wordreference.com])
allast
  (Fr. Moderne "allât," 'go,' imparfait du subjonctif/imperfect of the 
subjunctive.)
avoit, alternately aboit
  (Fr. Moderne "avait," 'he, she, it had')
avoient
  (Fr. Moderne avaient, 'they had')
cassetestes
  (Fr. Moderne "casse-têtes" 'war clubs,' perhaps 'tomahawks')
celuy
  (Fr. Moderne "celui" 'that one,' 'which one')
charioit
  (Fr. Moderne "chariait"?)
connoistre
  (Fr. Moderne "connaitre," 'to be acquainted with')
costé
  (Fr. Moderne "côté'," 'coast,' 'side')
disoit
  (Fr. Moderne "disait," 'he, she, it said,' 'he, she, it was saying')
escrasent
  (Fr. Moderne "écrasent," 'they crush' or 'mash')
escrit
  (Fr. Moderne "écrit," past participle of "écrire," 'write')
esté
  (Fr. Moderne "été," past participle of "être," 'been')
estoit, étoit
  (Fr. Moderne "était," 'he, she, it was')
estoient, étoient
  (Fr. Moderne "étaient," 'they were')
fasoit
  (Fr. Moderne "faisait," 'he, she, it was doing')
fenestres
  (Fr. Moderne "fenêtres," 'windows')
feste
  (Fr. Moderne "fête," 'feast,' 'celebration')
francois
  (Fr. Moderne "Français")
froterisont
  (probably Fr. Moderne "fraternisèrent," the simple past tense of 
"fraterniser," to 'fraternize;' in addition to subsituting an 'o' for the 
'a' in "fraterniser," de la Salle le jeune seems to have invented some of 
the word's spelling.)
iroit
  (Fr. Moderne "irait," 'would go' [conditional of "aller," 'go')
isles
  (Fr. Moderne "île," 'island;' the -s ending on "isle" is from the Old 
French nominative form)
loing
  (Fr. Moderne "loin," 'far')
luy
  (Fr. Moderne "lui", 'him,' 'it')
nommoient
  (Fr. Moderne "nommaient," 'they were named')
paroist
  (Fr. Moderne "parait," imperfect of "paraitre," 'it seemed')
pluye
  (Fr. Moderne "pluie," 'rain')
peschoient
  (Fr. Moderne "peschaient," 'they fished,' 'they were fishing')
pourroit
  (Fr. Moderne "pourrait," 'he, she, it could') [I misspelled!]
scavoir
  (Fr. Moderne "savoir," 'to know')
sçavoit
  (Fr. Moderne "savait," 'he, she, it knew,''he, she, it could tell')
sise
  (Archaic French [feminine? not in this case] form of Fr. Moderne "six," 
'six')
soi
  (Fr. Moderne "soi," 'self;' or "soi-même," 'oneself')
tirois or tiroit
  (Fr. Moderne "tirait," 'drew' as in drew a bow--to shoot an arrow)

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