Fwd: IAB Statement on Identifiers and Unicode 7.0.0

Asmus Freytag asmusf at ix.netcom.com
Wed Jan 28 20:47:38 CET 2015

On 1/28/2015 10:48 AM, Shawn Steele wrote:
> I will continue to participate, however I cannot fault Andrew’s response.

You meant my response, presumably, not Andrew's.

> The IAB has taken an intractable position and, despite claiming to not 
> be experts, is ignoring expert advice about how languages and scripts 
> work.  We’re at loggerheads with no obvious path moving forward.


> I’d like to propose that we have some sort of thing we want to 
> accomplish with this discussion rather than just yelling at each other.

or talking past each other.
> For a talking point I’ll propose “Ok, things are a little weirder than 
> we expected.  We want to make sure that we identifiers can reliably do 
> A, B & C.  How do we get there?”

For me to feel that participation in a further discussion is even 
remotely useful, I need to see an acknowledgement of these basic truths:

a) with a system as complex as reasonably mnemonic identifiers that are 
grounded in every natural writing system - worldwide - not all goals can 
be simultaneously achieved with perfection

b) there are fundamental limitations to what can be achieved on the 
protocol level

c) not all cases are equally important -- even if they are formally 
equivalent in structure to other cases which are either known to be 
dangerous or successfully addressable, some cases are just edge cases 
and do not give rise to practical concerns because the exploitation 
scenarios aren't realistic.

As long as the discussion is conducted as if a rigorous and perfect 
solution, of all edge cases, no matter the cost, and solely in the 
protocol layer is the only reasonable and possible outcome, I think no 
progress is possible.

On the other hand, if there were a thorough attempt at evaluating the 
actual and actually probable risk of certain edge cases (weirdnesses) 
and a reasoned approach of  triage and resolution, then I wouldn't mind 
volunteering my expertise towards a solution.

> -Shawn
> *From:*Idna-update [mailto:idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no] *On 
> Behalf Of *Asmus Freytag
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2015 10:42 AM
> *To:* idna-update at alvestrand.no
> *Subject:* Re: Fwd: IAB Statement on Identifiers and Unicode 7.0.0
> On 1/28/2015 6:52 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>         I'll refrain from commenting further on the threads:
>     I urge you to reconsider.  We need greater participation and
>     understanding in this area, not less.  It is precisely because of the
>     low participation rates we've had in these i18n issues that we keep
>     discovering problems late.
> I'm not currently encouraged to contribute further. The IAB statement 
> ignores pretty much everything that I (and others outside of it) had 
> contributed to the discussion.
> A./

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