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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/28/2015 10:48 AM, Shawn Steele
      wrote:<br>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
            will continue to participate, however I cannot fault
            Andrew’s response. <br>
          </span></p>
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    <br>
    You meant my response, presumably, not Andrew's.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
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            The IAB has taken an intractable position and, despite
            claiming to not be experts, is ignoring expert advice about
            how languages and scripts work.  We’re at loggerheads with
            no obvious path moving forward.</span></p>
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    <br>
    +1<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CY1PR0301MB07316FF5B5B8961775FEF5C782330@CY1PR0301MB0731.namprd03.prod.outlook.com"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’d
            like to propose that we have some sort of thing we want to
            accomplish with this discussion rather than just yelling at
            each other.</span></p>
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    <br>
    or talking past each other. <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CY1PR0301MB07316FF5B5B8961775FEF5C782330@CY1PR0301MB0731.namprd03.prod.outlook.com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For
            a talking point I’ll propose “Ok, things are a little
            weirder than we expected.  We want to make sure that we
            identifiers can reliably do A, B & C.  How do we get
            there?”</span></p>
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    <br>
    For me to feel that participation in a further discussion is even
    remotely useful, I need to see an acknowledgement of these basic
    truths:<br>
    <br>
    a) with a system as complex as reasonably mnemonic identifiers that
    are grounded in every natural writing system - worldwide - not all
    goals can be simultaneously achieved with perfection<br>
    <br>
    b) there are fundamental limitations to what can be achieved on the
    protocol level<br>
    <br>
    c) not all cases are equally important -- even if they are formally
    equivalent in structure to other cases which are either known to be
    dangerous or successfully addressable, some cases are just edge
    cases and do not give rise to practical concerns because the
    exploitation scenarios aren't realistic.<br>
    <br>
    As long as the discussion is conducted as if a rigorous and perfect
    solution, of all edge cases, no matter the cost, and solely in the
    protocol layer is the only reasonable and possible outcome, I think
    no progress is possible.<br>
    <br>
    On the other hand, if there were a thorough attempt at evaluating
    the actual and actually probable risk of certain edge cases
    (weirdnesses) and a reasoned approach of  triage and resolution,
    then I wouldn't mind volunteering my expertise towards a solution.<br>
    <br>
    A./<br>
    <blockquote
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">-Shawn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                Idna-update [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no">mailto:idna-update-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>Asmus Freytag<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 10:42 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:idna-update@alvestrand.no">idna-update@alvestrand.no</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: Fwd: IAB Statement on Identifiers
                and Unicode 7.0.0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 1/28/2015 6:52 AM, Andrew Sullivan
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre><span style="color:#3333FF">I'll refrain from commenting further on the threads:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre>I urge you to reconsider.  We need greater participation and<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>understanding in this area, not less.  It is precisely because of the<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>low participation rates we've had in these i18n issues that we keep<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>discovering problems late.<o:p></o:p></pre>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
          <span style="font-family:"Candara",sans-serif">I'm
            not currently encouraged to contribute further. The IAB
            statement ignores pretty much everything that I (and others
            outside of it) had contributed to the discussion.</span><br>
          <br>
          A./<br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
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