lbleriot at gmail.com
Sat Apr 18 23:46:34 CEST 2009
Dear IETF Members,
Sorry, I do not speak but I read Engslih. I use Google translation.
JFC Morfin asked me to interface our working groups, france @ large, with
the IETF. I was badly received by some. Then I had the chance to talk with
serious people, respectful of my ignorance, mindful of my user inputs. I
participated in the WG-IDNABIS and I could share here, with dedicated
people, wishing to work for the common good. They were also subject to the
problem of financing by sponsors described by the IAB in RFC 3869.
Today, two brilliant and dedicated contributors to the WG-IDNABIS have been
banned, in a quarter of an hour. By decision and execution of members of
I understand that the IETF've become a subsidiary of ISOC and the consortium
of its biggest members. I understand that Google pays its expenses. I
understand the enormous interests involved to control the global namespace
(rather than just domain names, but the words of semantic processing).
However, one root for the IPs, one root for the DNS, one root for languages,
and now a root for the spelling of words, this is too much control in one
I'm too old for that. I quit after copying the mail of one of the deportees
that you did not receive. It is important because it is very firm, but it
also calls for reconciliation in a practical manner. I hope that the other
expelled, will do the same.
JFC Morfin m'avait demandé d'interfacer nos groupes de travail, france at large,
avec l'IETF. J'ai d'abord été méchament accueilli par certains. Puis j'ai eu
la chance de discuter avec des gens sérieux, respectueux de mes ignorances,
soucieux de mes apports d'utilisateur. J'ai participé au WG-IDNABIS et j'ai
pu échanger là, avec des gens dévoués, désirant travailler pour le bien
commun. Ils étaient aussi soumis au problème du financement par les sponsors
décrit par l'IAB dans la RFC 3869.
Aujourd'hui, deux membres brilants et dédiés contributeurs du WG-IDNABIS ont
été bannis, en un quart d'heure. Par décision et exécution de Membres de
Je comprends que l'IETF ai du devenir une filliale de l'ISOC et le
consortium de ses plus gros membres. Je comprends que Google paie ses
dépenses. Je comprends les énormes intérêts en jeu pour contrôler le nommage
mondial (non plus seulement les noms de domaine, mais les mots des
processeurs sémantiques). Cependant, une racine pour les IPs, une racine
pour le DNS, une racine pour les langues, et maintenant une racine pour
l'orthographe des termes, cela fait trop de contrôle dans un seul endroit.
Je suis trop vieux pour cela. Je démissionne après avoir copié le mail d'un
des expulsés que vous n'avez pu recevoir. Il est important car il est trés
ferme, mais il appelle aussi à la réconciliation de façon pratique. J'espère
que l'autre expulsé, fera de même.
JFC je reste dans le groupe de travail et au comptoir. Enlève moi partout
ailleurs. Explique mon départ. Je suis écoeuré pour l'instant. Je sais que
tu comprendras. De tout coeur avec ce que Patrick Yeu veut dire. Il faut
vivre avec ces gens là pour comprendre combien ils sont pénibles, mais aussi
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Xavier Legoff <xlegoff at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [listegenerale] Removal of posting privileges
To: Vint Cerf <vint at google.com>
Cc : listegenerale at franceatlarge.org, housley at vigilsec.com, lisa Dusseault <
lisa at osafoundation.org>, Idna-update at alvestrand.no, lisa Dusseault <
lisa.dusseault at messagingarchitects.com>
2009/4/18 Vint Cerf <vint at google.com>
> please remove the posting privileges of the email addresses:
> renardinr at gmail.com "remy renardin"
> xlegoff at gmail.com "xavier legoff"
> These posters show no ability to participate constructively in the
consensus building process.
> Vint Cerf
> Chair, IDNABIS
> Idna-update mailing list
> Idna-update at alvestrand.no
Dear Mr. Cerf,
I am afraid that this is an ukase.
Yet, there is no king or tsar in the IETF.
You are welcome to enable your company to benefit from the IETF along the
new ISOC vision, in order to exclude your competition and users, but at
least do this while respecting the IETF rules.
We have sufficiently proven time and time again that we participate
constructively. We have provided enough information to seriously support our
position: now it is up to the governments, experts, managers, and users to
The only problem that we have observed thus far is that consensus was headed
our way. We have no doubt that the technical solution, which the Internet
will eventually use, will be rather near the one that clearly not only we
support. Maybe this is because we are the users and - how large can it
really be? - a single operator only lives off of the money of its respective
I cannot prejudge the position of others, as I only joined JFC via Skype.
1) We request people to NOT DoS this WG. Please wait for the IDNA2008 to be
presented to the IETF/LC. The only need for interoperability with any ML-DNS
solution/application, of any kind or by anyone, is for the Charter to be
respected: i.e. no mapping at the protocol level.
2) Please do NOT claim that there is a COI. There is a simple WG management
problem that was created by someone who needs to reread the IETF rules, who
in turn thought himself to be exclusive, and now has to tackle an unexpected
technical clarification in order to address a problem (missing presentation
layer) that many eventually thought was a feature.
Google is important for the Internet and we all benefit from it. Moreover,
their last quarterly results show that they are confronted with their
centralized architecture problem earlier than was expected due to the
As their users, we now have to accompany them in their very long way to go
to the fully distributed people centric architecture that we consensually
agreed upon. We, then, were all of the countries of the world, civil
society, private sector, public powers, international organizations, and
every stakeholder, ... except for the IETF who might have thought that they
could tell all of us, forever, the way to spell better in our own native
3) Please do NOT harass ISOC for the way that they want to assume the IETF
governance and financing. We have been illegally banned. We were NOT bought
out. However, RFC 3935 certainly has to be enhanced. We are interested in
discussing an RFC 3935bis BOF.
We also have not been banned from ISOC France. Set out to oppose ISOC only
if they also expel us, because in so doing you will thereby defend the IETF
that we truly believe in and that we have joined through the IUCG: it is not
for sale, it is only to serve.
Multilingualization is something complex, in which we are now going to work
on, in peace. This is because we now know that this WG/IDNABIS is unable to
match multilingualization's very prerequisites: to live with others, to be
polite, to be respectful, to care and not to expel, to inform oneself, not
to repeat the same propositions that did not work, to have some
multilingualistic competence and at least some multilateral spirit. We also
want to thank all of its members who, kindly or more formally, supported us.
We hope that they will pursue and perhaps even complete the job that was
described by the Charter.
Therefore, someone needs to take this job over now. Who, other than the
people and lead users of the world, is better suited for this job? That task
will not be easy. However, there is no other way around all this, since ISOC
sold the soul of the IETF to its Platinum members, and its Gold members are
expelling their competition.
I am surprised to have come to sign such a texte after so short a time of
duty at the IETF. However, I started to like it - in spite of the egos,
blazés, aggressive ones. I want this adventure of thousands of people
building a new world with T-Shirts, to survive ISOC sponsors' money,
political creeps, commercial priorities, and continue to help us, the users
and the people.
listegenerale mailing list
listegenerale at franceatlarge.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
More information about the Idna-update