LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: Eastern Armenian

[Debbie Garside]

I am fully aware of the "pointless" duplication and the prefix but it does
do away with the "undesirable" generic tag.

Call it hy-qwertya (and hy-qwertyb) if you like but don't call it something
generic that could be used with another prefix.

I have to say from a coding point of view I like your thinking - quite
ingenious; but, I fear, linguistically unsound.  I just have a hint of
certain problems on the horizon if such generic tags are made available. It
would be too open to misuse IMHO.  

Best regards 

Debbie 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark.edward.davis at gmail.com 
> [mailto:mark.edward.davis at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: 01 September 2006 19:13
> To: Debbie Garside
> Cc: Addison Phillips; Michael Everson; Don Osborn; 
> ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> Subject: Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: Eastern Armenian
> 
> This is a bit of pointless duplication, because what you end 
> up with (remember the prefix) is:
> 
> hy-hywest
> hy-hyeast
> 
> ---
> 
> Fundamentally, I sort of don't care. If the group wants to 
> have some random sequence of letters that few people will 
> understand without looking at the registry, fine. Here are a 
> couple of arbitrary sequences of letters (from the top of my 
> keyboard). That will do as well as anything.
> 
> Variant: poiuytre
> Prefix: hy
> Comment: Western Armenian
> ...
> 
> Variant: ertyuiop
> Prefix: hy
> Comment: Eastern Armenian
> ...
> 
> Mark
> 
> On 9/1/06, Debbie Garside <debbie at ictmarketing.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I agree with Addisons post in most areas.  However, I think 
> that the 
> > discussion on generic terms (eastern, western, northern 
> etc..) could 
> > be quite endless.
> >
> > Don has on several occasions asked how this will impact on the 
> > possible inclusion of ISO 639-6 and I think that any real 
> discussion 
> > with regard to dialects would necessarily have to include 
> discussion 
> > of ISO 639-6.  I think that to have this discussion at this stage 
> > would be counter productive in facilitating the tags that Mark has 
> > requested within an acceptable timescale.
> >
> > I would opt for non-generic tags in this instance and take this 
> > discussion to the LTRU (once re-chartered) as part of the 
> discussion 
> > surrounding dialects and ISO 639-6.
> >
> > I think that Michael's comment wrt "en-western" 
> "en-eastern" highlight 
> > the probable problems that would be encountered by the 
> introduction of 
> > such generic terms and one has to think of the precedents 
> being set here.
> >
> > Peter's original suggestion is perhaps the way forward; it is not 
> > beautiful John but it does the job. Thus I would propose 
> the following:
> >
> > ----
> >
> > hyeast
> > hywest
> >
> > ----
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Debbie
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no
> > > [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf 
> Of Addison 
> > > Phillips
> > > Sent: 01 September 2006 17:28
> > > To: Michael Everson
> > > Cc: ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> > > Subject: Re: LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM: Eastern Armenian
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That argument doesn't take you very far, given 
> BYZANTINE MUSICAL 
> > > > SYMBOL DIESIS APLI DYO DODEKATA.
> > >
> > > I think the argument about the form of the subtag is not 
> very useful 
> > > in its present form. With proposals for "eastern" and 
> "western", the 
> > > issue we face is, in my opinion, quite important and 
> should be dealt 
> > > with
> > > directly:
> > >
> > > 1. We have historical precedent for subtags restricted to 
> a specific 
> > > dialect. Witnesss 'nedis' and 'rozaj' in the current registry.
> > >
> > > 2. We do not have a history of registering "generic" subtags.
> > > Although 'eastern' and 'western' would initially indicate 
> Armenian 
> > > dialects, it is quite clear that these subtags could have 
> additional 
> > > Prefix fields added which would indicate other, 
> unrelated, dialects 
> > > of other languages.
> > >
> > > It seems clear to me that there are distinct entities of 
> some sort 
> > > that Mark needs to tag. The question before us is whether 
> we should 
> > > expand on precedent and register semi-generic subtags or continue 
> > > the existing practice of registering very specific 
> subtags for very 
> > > specific purposes.
> > >
> > > Personally, I do not support truly generic subtags ('eastern'
> > > with no Prefix at all), since I think those subtags would lead to 
> > > undesirable tag choices and confusion about tag choice.
> > >
> > > I therefore think that, given current practice, we should not 
> > > register 'eastern' and 'western' at this time, but we should 
> > > register subtags (perhaps Michael's suggested ones) with 
> the "same 
> > > meaning" to meet Mark's needs.
> > >
> > > I think the argument about how Mark has chosen to split/lump 
> > > dialects is a chimera: nothing says that competing 
> subtags could not 
> > > be registered that split Armenian in a "different direction" 
> > > (possibly for a different application).
> > >
> > > If Mark feels that semi-generic subtags are actually 
> necessary and 
> > > that Armenian dialects are just a useful test case, then 
> I think we 
> > > should have a full-fledged discussion of what the 
> guidelines ought 
> > > to be for their adoption and use.
> > >
> > > The use case for semi-generic subtags, in my mind, is not 
> proved by 
> > > a single case. What we need are four or five languages 
> (exact number 
> > > not
> > > important) that indicate how eastern/western or northern/southern 
> > > would work in practice.
> > >
> > > Also: what happens if we have "tlh-western" and a new subdialect 
> > > "fooish" is registered. Do we do "tlh-western-fooish" or 
> > > "tlh-fooish"?
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Addison
> > >
> > > --
> > > Addison Phillips
> > > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
> > >
> > > Internationalization is an architecture.
> > > It is not a feature.
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
>