IESG proposed statement on the IETF mission

todd glassey todd.glassey at worldnet.att.net
Wed Oct 15 17:00:07 CEST 2003


Harald -

So what does this remark say? simple it says that that the IETF and IESG are
both currently failing to provide lasting value in their processes and
deliverables.

Your problem as the IETF's  chair  and 'Sheppard's,  is that its just as
easy for 5 or 10 people to spin a group outside of the IETF - setup a
website and a PHPCollab posting site and viola - instant initiative
infrastructure. Really, its that easy, just add participants. The server can
be up in an hour. So if there is a real infrastructure that can compete with
the IETF's process and it comes in a can - then what do I get from the
IETF? - This is a serious question for you as the person responsible for
maintaining value in the IETF to answer... Got any ideas?

The point is that the IETF has competition from all over today and to insure
the continued value of its process and insured industry participation the
IETF needs to wake up and smell the coffee.  So Mr. Chair - what are you
going to do?

Todd Glassey

----- Original Message -----
From: <graham.travers at bt.com>
To: <harald at alvestrand.no>; <mcr at sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>
Cc: <problem-statement at alvestrand.no>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 1:56 AM
Subject: RE: IESG proposed statement on the IETF mission


Harald & Michael,

It's *getting* worse !

A few years ago one operator was prepared to fund about 20 individuals to
participate in the IETF;  now that's reduced to about 5, with no guarantee
that such a level will be sustained.

This is not just about the downturn in the industry.  Real problems that
operators have are not being addressed by the IETF.  If the IETF won't
address my concerns, and if I have to go to the OMA to meet my requirements
for application protocols, for example, that's where I'll go.

You may say "That's fine".  OK, if that's the policy.  But, then, don't be
surprised if it happens !


Regards,

Graham Travers

International Standards Manager
BT Exact

e-mail:   graham.travers at bt.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand [mailto:harald at alvestrand.no]
Sent: 15 October 2003 08:35
To: Michael Richardson
Cc: problem-statement at alvestrand.no
Subject: Re: IESG proposed statement on the IETF mission


It is a bad thing.
But we saw in Vienna that the exodus is far from complete yet. So it could
be worse....

--On 14. oktober 2003 21:37 -0300 Michael Richardson
<mcr at sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> wrote:

>
>>>>>> "Harald" == Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald at alvestrand.no> writes:
>     Harald> sort out which standards were actually needed.  As the field
> has     Harald> grown explosively, specialization has set in, and market
> pressures     Harald> have risen, there has been less and less operator
> participation in     Harald> the IETF.
>
>   I'm unclear if this documents thinks this is a good thing or a bad
> thing.   I think that it is a bad thing.
>
> ] Collecting stories about my dad: http://www.sandelman.ca/cjr/ |
> firewalls  [ ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON
> |net architect[ ] mcr at sandelman.ottawa.on.ca
> http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another
> NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy");  [
>
>







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