My thoughts about the problems of the IETF

Jonne.Soininen at nokia.com Jonne.Soininen at nokia.com
Mon May 5 14:15:32 CEST 2003


Brian et all,

the problem is that we mere mortals do not see what is going on inside the IESG. We see only the input and output of the IESG. So, we don't even know what is going on there. I'm quite sure that IESG is not the evil monster that some people make it to be. It is just impossible to prove otherwise when you don't know what they are doing. We do not even get real meeting minutes of the IESG meetings. (ID tracker is really, really good, but does not solve everything!)
I find it a bit peculiar that there are some people who say that there is no oligarchy but in the same sentence state that you do not understand IESG/IAB/Directorates as you have not been part of it. I think this is a bit of a contradiction...


Cheers,

Jonne.
(Sorry about the rant...)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian at hursley.ibm.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 8:33 AM
> To: Keith Moore
> Cc: harald at alvestrand.no; problem-statement at alvestrand.no
> Subject: Re: My thoughts about the problems of the IETF
> 
> 
> In any case, this is exactly why the IESG is renewed annually
> by an independent process. Eric is describing what happens in
> self-perpetuating groups. From my 5 years sitting in on IESG
> phone calls, the IESG really isn't wedged in this way. For example,
> I remember this fellow Keith Moore who was always kicking up a
> fuss inside the IESG :-)
> 
>    Brian
> 
> Keith Moore wrote:
> > 
> > > Harald> how can  we overlook the  fact of legitimate 
> differences  of opinion
> > > Harald> when we have them among ourselves all the time??????????
> > >
> > > Oh come on now.  Dogma doesn't provide the answer to 
> every question, so even
> > > the  most  dogmatic,  in-bred  groups  will  have  
> internal  differences  of
> > > opinion.  That  doesn't  mean  that  they  will allow  
> their  dogmas  to  be
> > > questioned.
> > 
> > Perhaps not, but there are conflicting dogmas even among IESG.
> > Nor are inbreeding and dogma limited to IESG - WGs exhibit 
> them also.
> > 
> > Sometimes, not always, conflicts between dogma lead to 
> greater understanding
> > and better resolution of the problem.  Ideally this would 
> happen long before
> > there is a substantial investment in a particular solution.
> > 
> > Keith
> 


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