modest suggestion for how to proceed

[Spencer Dawkins]

OK, I'm an agreeable guy. I want to agree with everybody, so I
agree with these points ...

- we do need to know what a problem is, before we can solve it

- we don't want to wait longer than we have to wait

- we have more than one problem
    (unless it's that "IETF doesn't work")

- we're willing to do incremental solutions, maybe interatively

- we have a draft with descriptions of things 
  that people said were problems

- I can't imagine that we all agree 
  that all the proposed problems are really problems

Is there ONE problem that we can agree on? a problem that's not
coupled to other problems? a problem that doesn't call for
sweeping organizational and/or process changes as its solution?
and is still worth solving?

If we use the "root problem" section, perhaps "2.3 IETF
contributors appear to be less engaged than in earlier days"?

If we use the more granular proposed problems in the appendix,
perhaps "A.1 Problem area/subject matter issues", summarized as

  These problems are fundamentally caused by the lack of
  well-defined mission, and consequent effects, such as lack of
  priorities and goals, and undefined boundaries to the scope of
  problems which the IETF will tackle.

If we want to split up the work, identifying ANY work that can
be done in relative isolation seems key...

Spencer

--- Brian E Carpenter <brian at hursley.ibm.com> wrote:
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
> > 
> > it seems clear that we've identified that there isn't just
> one core problem
> > - so splitting up the task of dealing with them might be the
> Right Thing to
> > do.
> 
> However, before we do that we need consensus on what the core
> problems
> actually are. I'm suspending judgement until I see the next
> version of the
> draft, but I'm not sure we are there yet.
> 
> I respectfully disagree with Keith. I don't want this work to
> fall into the
> same sort of black hole as the multi6 WG (to take an example).
> I think we
> need to start looking for targetted incremental solutions
> ASAP. Some of these
> problems have been recognized for several years, so it's time
> to start
> designing the fixes.
> 
>    Brian