appeal mechanisms was Re: Ombuds-process
John C Klensin
john-ietf at jck.com
Mon Jun 30 20:07:36 CEST 2003
--On Monday, 30 June, 2003 18:20 -0400 Scott Bradner
<sob at harvard.edu> wrote:
>> So, the IAB may recommend an action to the IESG, but it can't
>> force the publication of an RFC.
>
> it would take a rather stupid IESG to not take the IAB's advice
> in an appeals process - the ISG has not been *that* stupid yet
> and I doubt it would ever be - to reject such a judgement
> would, in my opinion be grounds for a complete turnover of
> teh then sitting IESG and I would personally start the recall
> process
To be strictly accurate, as I understand the relevant
procedures, the IAB _can_ direct that a document be published,
it just can't give such a document a standards-track category.
Specifically...
> "The IAB may not, however, pre-empt the role of the IESG by
> issuing a decision which only the IESG is empowered to make."
But the IAB may direct the publication of an RFC in the normal
course of events (see 2223bis), so its asking for publication
doesn't involve a decision that only the IESG is empowered to
make. Classifying something as a standard is another matter --
only the IESG can do that.
On the other hand, that particular way of dealing with a "rather
stupid IESG" might be equally stupid on the IAB's part: if we
were to get into that state, we would be in deep enough trouble
that Scott's proposed "complete turnover" remedy would be among
the most mild of reasonable actions.
Folks, I don't think there is any point trying to make
procedures for meltdown situations in which, e.g., the IAB, on
appeal, strongly disagrees with an IESG decision and the IESG
decides to ignore whatever the IAB has to say. If that happens
and we have elaborate procedures, an IESG in that mode is fairly
likely to ignore them too. Then we need a potentially-bloody
revolution, not more procedures. Ergo, more procedures don't
help, at least as long as we believe that, in sufficiently
extreme cases, the recall mechanism really would work.
john
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