Trusting the IESG to manage the reform process (was: Re: Doing the Right Things?)

[Bound, Jim]

Did not imply or say you did not think they don't need fixing.  I think
"i" is the approach of course "ii" is not even in my mind.
/jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John C Klensin [mailto:john-ietf at jck.com] 
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:59 PM
> To: Bound, Jim; problem-statement at alvestrand.no
> Subject: RE: Trusting the IESG to manage the reform process 
> (was: Re: Doing the Right Things?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --On Monday, 09 June, 2003 15:02 -0400 "Bound, Jim" 
> <Jim.Bound at hp.com> wrote:
> 
> > maybe we should make a list of what the ideal IESG member and the 
> > group should do and how they behave as IESG with IESG hats? 
>  this way 
> > it is not finger pointing.
> >
> > but saying there is no fix needed for the IESG is simply 
> not dealing 
> > with reality IMO.  There are problems and they are all not 
> perceived.
> 
> Jim,
> 
> I didn't suggest that the IESG didn't need some "fixing".
> 
> > If all we are going to do is fix everything but the IESG I 
> am going to 
> > leave this list because the goal of fixing the IETF will 
> not get done.
> >
> > The IESG needs a fix.  I don't know what it is but it needs 
> fixing as 
> > other parts of our community.
> 
> Ok.  But there are two types of fixes:
> 
> 	(i)  Going to the IESG and saying "please do this
> 	differently".  This works iff the IESG is receptive.  If
> 	the IESG is not receptive, the evidence is that the
> 	request will have no effect: we have no mechanism
> 	(perhaps fortunately) for carting off to jail for
> 	violating the procedures.
> 	
> 	(ii) Removing or abolishing the [entire] IESG and
> 	replacing them/it with a structure that is more
> 	responsive to community desires and whims.
> 
> Personally, I don't think we are at the point where the second 
> is necessary.   Your impressions and opinion may differ.  But I 
> think it is very important that we distinguish between the two 
> as we try to sort through problems, procedures, and desired 
> changes.
> 
> regards,
>     john
> 
>