Document Series

Bound, Jim Jim.Bound at
Sat Jun 7 23:21:32 CEST 2003

I completely disagree with you Mr. Halpern.  The standard is not to be
as robust or mean't to be at PS.  Please re-read Bob Hinden's mail more


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:joel at] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:14 PM
> To: problem-statement at
> Subject: Re: Document Series
> I think we are each making assumptions about the history that 
> led to this, 
> and it would not surprise me if we are making different 
> assumptions. Note that I do not have data to back my 
> understanding / memory, so I may 
> well be confused.
> My understanding is that the higher bar to PS arose as a 
> consequence of 
> things being widely deployed at PS and things not advancing 
> to Draft rather 
> than the deployment and non-advancement being a consequence 
> of the high bar.
> This is important in the sense that if the lack of 
> advancement came first, 
> then simply lowering the bar will not help us get better 
> standards, and in 
> fact could result in our ending up with lower quality 
> documents permanently.
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
> At 05:03 PM 6/3/2003 -0700, Bob Hinden wrote (in response to 
> Dave Crocker):
> >As you correctly point out the IETF (and as implemented by 
> the IESG) is
> >not using the standards process we have defined.  It has 
> been changed 
> >where the initial barrier has been raised very high at 
> Proposed Standard 
> >and hardy anything gets to Draft standard, let alone (Full) Standard.
> >
> >I think that many of the problems folks are complaining 
> about stem from
> >this.  It causes the IESG to worry about letting a document 
> get to PS that 
> >is not perfect.  This results in many detailed reviews and 
> documents being 
> >blocked for what might seem minor reasons.  This in turn 
> creates a work 
> >load on the IESG that is close to impossible.  The resulting 
> delays cause 
> >frustration between authors, chairs, working groups, AD, 
> etc.  I think 
> >that a lot of this stems from trying to make PS the biggest hurdle.

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