[Ltru] [Fwd: Re: [TC46-L] [OLD-IRISH-L] An official language code for Primitive Irish]

Randy Presuhn randy_presuhn at mindspring.com
Wed Jan 20 22:09:24 CET 2010

Hi -

As ltru at ietf.org list administrator...

Why is this being sent to the ltru list?  As a discussion of a
specific language, rather than of BCP 47 in general, this
discussion really doesn't seem appropriate for ltru at ietf.org
Please drop ltru at ietf.org from this thread.


----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gunn" <mgunn at ucd.ie>
> To: <ISO639-3 at sil.org>; <ietf-languages at alvestrand.no>; "'LTRU Working Group'" <ltru at ietf.org>; "Ian Cowan" <Ian.Cowan at nsai.ie>;
"Gay Moran" <Gay.Moran at nsai.ie>; "Scholars and students of Old Irish" <OLD-IRISH-L at LISTSERV.HEANET.IE>; <tc46-l at listserv.heanet.ie>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] [Fwd: Re: [TC46-L] [OLD-IRISH-L] An official language code for Primitive Irish]
> Scríobh Peter Constable:
> >
> > ... I think procedural issues would more likely be about demonstrating
> > that the user / expert community recognizes a conventional distinction
> > between the different varieties and that there is reasonable consensus
> > as to what the pertinent historical distinctions in the evolution of
> > Irish are.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Peter
> >
> That, I believe, can be demonstrated, as indicated below, only to fill
> in the request form. NSAI represents our user community (cc: list
> OLD-IRISH-L, where the proposal was made and expert opinion invited).
> mg
> To:
> From: Marion Gunn <mgunn at ucd.ie>
> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:43:21 +0000
> As Ireland's (NSAI) sole representative in ISO/TC 37 for many years
> during the 1990s and similarly Head of Ireland's (NSAI) ISO/TC 46
> delegation until 2001, I would foresee few procedural difficulties, if
> any in registering the proposed new language code in ISO-639-3, with the
> assistance of Ian Cowan and Gay Moran of NSAI and Fidelma Ní
> Gallchobhair of the Coiste Téarmaíochta (my successor in ISO/TC 37,
> which now has a larger delegation than then, including Donla Uí
> Bhraonáin of DCU). This proposal was not my idea, in fact, it would
> never have occurred to me, but I would not see any harm in registering
> such a tag (rather the reverse).
> mg
> Scríobh ejp10:
> Yes - this is a good idea, and this is a good group to do this. The
> ISO-639-3 list is meant to be more linguistically accurate than the
> older ISO-639 two-letter list, so it's good to get on it. There may be
> some procedural issues, but I would assume the code will be accepted
> because the language is so distinct from Old Irish.
> I would be happy to add my name to any list and provide any kind of
> assistance from a standards perspective, although I should advise
> everyone that I am really a Brythonic person at heart. :)
> Elizabeth
> On Jan 19, 2010, at 3:00 AM, OLD-IRISH-L automatic digest system wrote:
> From: Caoimhin O Donnaile <caoimhin at SMO.UHI.AC.UK>
> Date: January 18, 2010 4:25:33 PM EST
> Subject: An official language code for Primitive Irish
> When I put David Stifter's translation to Primitive Irish (Ogam Irish /
> Ancient Irish) of the three monks story up on the Internet:
>   http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/sengoidelc/donncha/tm/ilteangach/?teanga=x-xog
> I had to invent a temporary code "x-xog" for the language, because it seems
> that although there are official codes for:
>  gv   Modern Manx
>  gd   Modern Scottish Gaelic
>  ga   Modern Irish
>  ghc  Hiberno-Scottish Gaelic (12th-17th centuries)
>  mga  Middle Irish
>  sga  Old Irish
>  xtg  Transalpine Gaulish
>  xcg  Cisalpine Gaulish
>  xce  Celtiberian
> as can be seen from the lists at:
>  http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/GetListOfAncientLgs.html
>  http://www.sil.org/ISO639-3/codes.asp
> there is as yet no offical code for Primitive Irish.  I have been
> talking to
> David and his view is that the linguistic step from Primitive Irish (at the
> middle of its chronological range) to Old Irish is at least as big as the
> step from Old Irish to Middle Irish, so that it would indeed be appropriate
> to give Primitive Irish a separate language code.  The best code we could
> find which is still free is "pgl".  If we proceed with a request, the next
> step would be for us to fill in the request form at:
>  http://www.sil.org/ISO639-3/submit_changes.asp
>  http://www.sil.org/ISO639-3/ISO639-3_NewCodeRequestForm.doc
> I was wondering first, though, whether list members might have any
> comments.
> Does this seem like a good idea?, a bad idea?, any other thoughs?
> Caoimhín


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