suppress-script values for macrolanguage-encompassed languages
CE Whitehead
cewcathar at hotmail.com
Sat Dec 18 19:42:42 CET 2010
Hi once more (hope this message does not get sent twice my current library wifi is a mess); I just decided to tackle the varieties listed under ar (Arabic);
I used Richard Ishida's language subtag search tool since I am no longer able to download the list of subtags on my laptop (mini).
Judeo Arabic varieties which actually fall under jrb should not get an Arabic suppress-script and I guess you had not intended to include these (sorry for my last mistake). I've indicated these with asterisks.
Otherwise suppress-script is o.k. for Arabic but exceptions include definitely Mozarabic [mxi] which is historically written in Latin as well as Arabic and Hebrew (and should never get a suppress script), as well as probably Cypriot Arabic [acy].
I've indicated varieties which seem to be written by giving a script and have given examples of where the dialects are used.
Please note that a lot of these are spoken dialects and not written at all although Egyptian and some others may be written for some purposes (tv, cartoons; many dialects are written in texting but not necessarily in Arabic script);
Books that teach the dialects tend to show the Arabic word adn the local pronunciation in a Latin phonetic transcription (as with Teach Yourself Egyptian Arabic).
Thus ethnologue often will not provide a writing system and Wikipedia will list Arabic because people are literate in Standard Arabic.
Arabic script is not always preferred to write these however because it does not show how endings and vowels are handled and online Bible portions tend to use Latin script or the IPA. (See also: http://www.erudit.org/revue/meta/2004/v49/n2/009369ar.pdf
"This Arabic text has all the characteristics of colloquial Arabic (see Zughoul 1980, Meisless 1980,
Bentahila and Davies 1983, Mitchell 1986, Kaye 1994). It is dialectal in that the reader can directly recognize that it is in Egyptian Arabic. It is awkwardly written in Arabic script which does not accommodate many sounds in the phonemic inventory of the colloquials. Thus, not easily read by speakers of other Arabic dialects simply because it involves many phonemic substitutions that are not easily represented in writing because the Arabic script does not have symbols for these colloquial Egyptian phonemes. To clarify this point, if we take the Classical Arabic voiced palatal affricate /j/ or /dg/, this phoneme is absent from the inventory of Colloquial Egyptian Arabic and whenever it occurs it is always substituted by the voiced velar stop /g/ which is absent from the phonemic inventory of Classical Arabic, and consequently has no written symbol. "
Diglossia in Literary Translation: Accommodation into Translation Theory"
Muhammad Raji Zughoul et Mohammed El-Badarien
Meta: Translators' Journal, vol. 49, n° 2, 2004, p. 447-456.
http://id.erudit.org/iderudit/009369ar ;
For a chatting and texting alphabet see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_chat_alphabet )
Here's the complete list; those whose macro-language is not Arabic are indicated with an "*".
aao Algerian Saharan Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
abh Tajiki Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script
abv Baharna Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script
acm Mesopotamian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script; radio and tv
acq Ta'izzi-Adeni Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
acw Hijazi Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
acx Omani Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
acy Cypriot Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Article at Wikipedia explains that people also speak Greek or Turkish and I would guess thus that literacy is in Greek or Turkish; see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_Arabic
No script is given at Wikipedia or at ethnologue
adf Dhofari Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
aeb Tunisian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script
aec Saidi Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script
afb Gulf Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script
ajp South Levantine Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Arabic script
* ajt Judeo-Tunisian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: jrb
Hebrew script
*aju Judeo-Moroccan Arabic In some legacy applications the macrolanguage subtag jrb (Judeo-Arabic) may be a better choice than aju if you want your language tag to be recognised.
•Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: jrb
Hebrew, Arabic scripts
apc North Levantine Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script; it is used in radio and tv (it is very close to the standard anyway)
apd Sudanese Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script
arb Standard Arabic In some legacy applications the macrolanguage subtag ar (Arabic) may be a better choice than arb if you want your language tag to be recognised.
•Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
obviously this is the written standard -- so yes, Arabic script
arq Algerian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script;
according to ethnologue some portions of the Bible have been written in this dialect;
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=arq ??
however
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/wb/kab/index.htm#contents
shows phonetic transcriptions Latin extended IPA;
while the following
http://zighcult.canalblog.com/archives/2006/09/24/2743908.html
shows phonetic transcriptions in Latin
( phonetic or latin scriopt may allow more representation of sounds and diglossia or may be convenient for the internet )
ars Najdi Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script; spoken
ary Moroccan Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script; radio and tv programs
arz Egyptian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script; radio and tv programs
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=arz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Arabic
says it is written in Arabic script for local consumption but then transcribed into Latin or the IPA for learners and that Latin might be used online or in text messages (convenience I assume so I am not sure about the suppress-script tag here)
auz Uzbeki Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken; Northen Uzbek is the literary language according to ethnologue
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=auz
avl Eastern Egyptian Bedawi Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script; spoken
ayh Hadrami Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
Wikipedia refers readers to the following link but I am not subscribed and could not see the script used without paying $30.00:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a907118635~db=all~order=page
ayl Libyan Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
written in Arabic script per Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arabic
It's used in cartoons texting instant messaging
ayn Sanaani Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
spoken
ayp North Mesopotamian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Ethnologue says this is an oral language strictly that these people do not read Arabic:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ayp
However Wikipedia says these people are literate in Arabic
bbz Babalia Creole Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Arabic script?
* jrb Judeo-Arabic jrb is a macrolanguage that encompasses the following more specific primary language subtags: ajt aju jye yhd yud. If it doesn't break legacy usage for your application, you should use one of these more specific language subtags instead. On the other hand, jrb is often preferred by legacy applications rather than aju (Moroccan Judeo-Arabic). •Type: language•Added: 2005-10-16•Scope: macrolanguage
Hebrew, Arabic scripts
* jye Judeo-Yemeni Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: jrb
Hebrew script
mxi Mozarabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29
This is a Medieval mix of Spanish and Arabic
According to Wikipedia this could have been written in Arabic, Latin, or even Hebrew script, there is no official script, please don't give this a suppress-script:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozarabic_language
pga Sudanese Creole Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=pga
This is South Sudan Arabic apparently and portions of the Bible are written in it (not sure in what script)
According to Wikipedia Arabic script is the writing system in use though of course for South Sudan's languages Latin is used
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_Creole_Arabic
Anyway here is an online Bible chapter in Latin:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7976833/Juba-Arabic-BibleMark-Chapter-2
shu Chadian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
According to Wikipedia Arabic script only is used
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chadian_Arabic
According to ethnologue both Arabic and Latin scripts are in use:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=shu
According to
http://www.panafril10n.org/index.php/PanAfrLoc/ArabicScript
this is a fair candidate for Arabic suppress script regardless of the info at ethnologue.
sqr Siculo Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29
This is not an ethnologue code but Maltese is written in Latin; see
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=mlt
However perhaps historically it was written in Arabic; see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Arabic
ssh Shihhi Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: ar
Spoken
xaa Andalusian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29
Arabic script; see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_Arabic
Some writing reflected the dialect rather than just the standard
* yhd Judeo-Iraqi Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: jrb
Hebrew script
yud Judeo-Tripolitanian Arabic •Type: language•Added: 2009-07-29•Macrolanguage: jrb
Used in Israel Hebrew script
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=yud
Best,
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar at hotmail.com
From: cewcathar at hotmail.com
To: ietf-languages at iana.org
Subject: suppress-script values for macrolanguage-encompassed languages
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 15:54:11 -0500
Hi.
Peter Constable petercon at microsoft.com
Sat Dec 11 21:26:08 CET 2010
> I've been occupied with other things for the past month or so, but I'd like to resume this topic. I've looked at cases involving macrolanguages with Suppress-Script values; here are my findings.
Sorry I too have been "ooccupied" and still have to go through all of these but I've given a little thought at least to Arabic and Yiddish (thanks Doug for his notes of caution here).
Regarding Arabic, see:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=aju
for a variety of Moroccan Arabic that should not have suppress-script as Arabic according to ethnologue.
(I do also believe that sometimes Egyptian Arabic is written in Latin script but that may in fact be changing I don't know I would need to hear from a native speaker.)
For the Yiddish I suppose you all will be o.k. with ethnologue so long as you do not give the sign languages suppress-script of Hebrew; I don't know many Yiddish words or much about Yiddish writing however; thus either let's go with ethnologue and make these suppress-script or else let's hear from those who know more about it. (I did google one resource on the history however that suggests that any historical variety will perhaps also meet Doug's criteria for a suppress-script since apparently few people read Latin script well; if you need the resource here it is:
http://books.google.com/books?id=dodhJPwxg38C&pg=SL1-PA165&lpg=SL1-PA165&dq=Yiddish+in+Latin+script&source=bl&ots=SBNn-ctFVS&sig=MfaGX7Z6S5g-FbA38R_CdUNF_1M&hl=fr&ei=GTIETeatIIOdlgezx6WDCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=Yiddish%20in%20Latin%20script&f=false )
> The following are macrolanguages that have Suppress-Script fields in their LSTR records (sorted first by script):
> ar Arabic Arab
No not a blanket suppress-script; some varieties should not have suppress-script.
> . . .
> yi Yiddish Hebr
Watch out for sign languages; that's it.
> . . .
Thanks!
Best,
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar at hotmail.com
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