ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

[Peter Constable]

I think the way the JAC has been operating is that ISO 639 codes conventional language-entity concepts. This is not in conflict with the title of ISO 639 since conventional concepts have names by which we refer to them. That perspective is what is reflected in the text of 639-3. I don't think it's fundamentally inconsistent with what Gérard is saying.


Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Lang Gérard
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:21 AM
To: Rebecca S Guenther; Ihar Mahaniok; Lang Gérard
Cc: ietf-languages at iana.org; Havard Hjulstad; isojac at loc.gov
Subject: RE: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Dear Rebecca,

I certainly agree that "ISO 639-2 does not standardize language names", but in my opinion, it is nevertheless not possible to state that "ISO 369-2 standardizes the linguistic entity by use of a language identifier". In fact, ISO 639-2 does not standardize "language names", nor "linguistic entities". Because, if ISO 639-2 was to standardize "linguistic entities", this would at least ask that the normative text of the standard gives definitions for these linguistic entities, and this is not the case.
In fact, as is clearly stated by the title "Codes for the representation of names of languages--Part 2: Alpha-3 code" and explained in "1. Scope: This part of ISO 639 provides two sets of three-letter alphabetic codes for the representation of names of languages, one for terminology applications and the other for bibliographic applications...", the very purpose of ISO 639-2 is to standardize the way (terminologic and bibliographic) alpha-3 code elements are build and choosen to represent language names.
Let me also stress that the term "language identifier" has strictly no occurrence inside ISO 639-2 (1998), that only uses "language code" where ISO 639 (1988)
used "language symbols". It is only after that ISO 639-1(2002), ISO 639-3 (2007) and ISO 639-5 (2008) all three introduced the term "language identifier" (with "language symbol" as synonym), but with giving three distinct definitions for this term !
Amicalement.
Gérard LANG

-----Message d'origine-----
De : ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no] De la part de Rebecca S Guenther
Envoyé : mercredi 5 novembre 2008 23:26
À : Ihar Mahaniok
Cc : ietf-languages at iana.org; Havard Hjulstad; isojac at loc.gov
Objet : Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Dear Ihar Mahaniok:

Linguistically, Moldovan is a variant of the language also known as Romanian, so it will use the same identifier (ro (639-1), ron (639-2/T, rum (639-2/B)). Language identifiers are not intended to be abbreviations of the language, although at times they are based on some form of a particular language name. A script code could be added to indicate the Cyrillic script. ISO 639-2 does not standardize language names; it only standardizes the linguisitic entity by use of a language identifier. The name Moldovan will be added to this identifier as a variant name (The ISO 639 lists do not have "preferred" names, only alternate names).
See also the description in Ethnologue:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Moldova

Rebecca Guenther
Chair, ISO 639-2 Joint Advisory Committee

Rebecca S. Guenther

 Senior Networking and Standards Specialist
 Network Development and MARC Standards Office
 Library of Congress
 101 Independence Ave. SE
 Washington, DC 20540

 Washington, DC 20540-4402
 (202) 707-5092 (voice)    (202) 707-0115 (FAX)
 rgue at loc.gov

>>> "Ihar Mahaniok" <mahaniok at gmail.com> 11/03/08 3:21 PM >>>
Hi all,

How is the official language of Transnistrian Moldovan Republic to be identified from now on?
They use Moldovan in Cyrillic script, and both people and authorities of this de-facto independent territory would definitely object calling this language "Romanian".

Ihar

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Håvard Hjulstad <HHj at standard.no>
wrote:
> The ISO 639 Registration Authorities' Joint Advisory Committee has
decided:
>
>
>
> The identifiers mo and mol are deprecated
>
> leaving ro and ron/rum the current language identifiers to be used
for the
> variant of the Romanian language also known as Moldavian and Moldovan
in
> English and moldave in French. (The identifier ron is used in the ISO
639-2
> T table; the identifier rum in the ISO 639-2 B table.)
>
>
>
> The identifiers mo and mol will not be assigned to different items,
and
> recordings using these identifiers will not be invalid.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Håvard Hjulstad
>
>
>
> --------------------
>
> Håvard Hjulstad
>
>   Standard Norge / Standards Norway
>   Postboks 242, NO-1326 Lysaker
>   besøksadresse / visiting address: Strandveien 18
>
>   tel: (+47) 67838600  |  faks / fax: (+47) 67838601
>
>   direkte tel / direct tel: (+47) 67838645
>
>   hhj at standard.no
>
>   http://www.standard.no/
>
> --------------------
>
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