Registration of el-Latn language tag

Mark Davis mark.davis at
Wed Sep 28 17:32:52 CEST 2005

a) We have never had the accuracy that Tex is looking for. "en-US" does 
not tell me exactly what to expect; it ranges from the English used in 
"Hee Haw", to rap, to Robert De Niro's English in "Raging Bull". What is 
the practical problem that having el-Latn causes? The lack of 
spell-checkers doesn't mean it's an illegitimate tag; I don't have a 
spell-checker for the following, but it is valid en-GB:

Beatrice: Not til God make men of some other mettal then
earth, would it not grieue a woman to be ouer-masterd with
a peece of valiant dust? to make an account of her life to a clod
of waiward marle? no vnckle, ile none: Adams sonnes are my
brethren, and truely I holde it a sinne to match in my kin-
red. [Much Ado About Nothing (Quarto) 2.1]

b). We already have a generative mechanism in 3066 primus. All of the 
tags at the end of this message work. Is this a problem? Nope. 
Generative mechanisms have a huge advantage over registrations. If I 
have an application or a customer that needs haw-DE, I can use that tag 
right now, without having to wait months or years for it to be registered.

The meaning of the tag is clear, even though the precise denotation is 
not -- but you can *never* get precision anyway. Having a registration 
citing 5 books doesn't mean that the text is *limited* to precisely what 
is described in those 5 books (all and only the words in those books, 
all and only the grammatical constructs and combinations of words in 
those 5 books)  -- such registrations would be useless.


haw-AD: Hawaiian(Andorra), haw-AE: Hawaiian(United Arab Emirates), 
haw-AF: Hawaiian(Afghanistan), haw-AG: Hawaiian(Antigua and Barbuda), 
haw-AI: Hawaiian(Anguilla), haw-AL: Hawaiian(Albania), haw-AM: 
Hawaiian(Armenia), haw-AN: Hawaiian(Netherlands Antilles), haw-AO: 
Hawaiian(Angola), haw-AQ: Hawaiian(Antarctica), haw-AR: 
Hawaiian(Argentina), haw-AS: Hawaiian(American Samoa), haw-AT: 
Hawaiian(Austria), haw-AU: Hawaiian(Australia), haw-AW: Hawaiian(Aruba), 
haw-AX: Hawaiian(Aland Islands), haw-AZ: Hawaiian(Azerbaijan), haw-BA: 
Hawaiian(Bosnia and Herzegovina), haw-BB: Hawaiian(Barbados), haw-BD: 
Hawaiian(Bangladesh), haw-BE: Hawaiian(Belgium), haw-BF: 
Hawaiian(Burkina Faso), haw-BG: Hawaiian(Bulgaria), haw-BH: 
Hawaiian(Bahrain), haw-BI: Hawaiian(Burundi), haw-BJ: Hawaiian(Benin), 
haw-BM: Hawaiian(Bermuda), haw-BN: Hawaiian(Brunei), haw-BO: 
Hawaiian(Bolivia), haw-BQ: Hawaiian(British Antarctic Territory), 
haw-BR: Hawaiian(Brazil), haw-BS: Hawaiian(Bahamas), haw-BT: 
Hawaiian(Bhutan), haw-BV: Hawaiian(Bouvet Island), haw-BW: 
Hawaiian(Botswana), haw-BY: Hawaiian(Belarus), haw-BZ: Hawaiian(Belize), 
haw-CA: Hawaiian(Canada), haw-CC: Hawaiian(Cocos (Keeling) Islands), 
haw-CD: Hawaiian(Congo (Kinshasa)), haw-CF: Hawaiian(Central African 
Republic), haw-CG: Hawaiian(Congo (Brazzaville)), haw-CH: 
Hawaiian(Switzerland), haw-CI: Hawaiian(Ivory Coast), haw-CK: 
Hawaiian(Cook Islands), haw-CL: Hawaiian(Chile), haw-CM: 
Hawaiian(Cameroon), haw-CN: Hawaiian(China), haw-CO: Hawaiian(Colombia), 
haw-CR: Hawaiian(Costa Rica), haw-CS: Hawaiian(Serbia And Montenegro), 
haw-CT: Hawaiian(Canton and Enderbury Islands), haw-CU: Hawaiian(Cuba), 
haw-CV: Hawaiian(Cape Verde), haw-CX: Hawaiian(Christmas Island), 
haw-CY: Hawaiian(Cyprus), haw-CZ: Hawaiian(Czech Republic), haw-DD: 
Hawaiian(East Germany), haw-DE: Hawaiian(Germany), haw-DJ: 
Hawaiian(Djibouti), haw-DK: Hawaiian(Denmark), haw-DM: 
Hawaiian(Dominica), haw-DO: Hawaiian(Dominican Republic), haw-DZ: 
Hawaiian(Algeria), haw-EC: Hawaiian(Ecuador), haw-EE: Hawaiian(Estonia), 
haw-EG: Hawaiian(Egypt), haw-EH: Hawaiian(Western Sahara), haw-ER: 
Hawaiian(Eritrea), haw-ES: Hawaiian(Spain), haw-ET: Hawaiian(Ethiopia), 
haw-FI: Hawaiian(Finland), haw-FJ: Hawaiian(Fiji), haw-FK: 
Hawaiian(Falkland Islands), haw-FM: Hawaiian(Micronesia), haw-FO: 
Hawaiian(Faroe Islands), haw-FQ: Hawaiian(French Southern and Antarctic 
Territories), haw-FR: Hawaiian(France), haw-FX: Hawaiian(Metropolitan 
France), haw-GA: Hawaiian(Gabon), haw-GB: Hawaiian(United Kingdom), 
haw-GD: Hawaiian(Grenada), haw-GE: Hawaiian(Georgia), haw-GF: 
Hawaiian(French Guiana), haw-GH: Hawaiian(Ghana), haw-GI: 
Hawaiian(Gibraltar), haw-GL: Hawaiian(Greenland), haw-GM: 
Hawaiian(Gambia), haw-GN: Hawaiian(Guinea), haw-GP: 
Hawaiian(Guadeloupe), haw-GQ: Hawaiian(Equatorial Guinea), haw-GR: 
Hawaiian(Greece), haw-GS: Hawaiian(South Georgia and the South Sandwich 
Islands), haw-GT: Hawaiian(Guatemala), haw-GU: Hawaiian(Guam), haw-GW: 
Hawaiian(Guinea-Bissau), haw-GY: Hawaiian(Guyana), haw-HK: Hawaiian(Hong 
Kong S.A.R., China), haw-HM: Hawaiian(Heard Island and McDonald 
Islands), haw-HN: Hawaiian(Honduras), haw-HR: Hawaiian(Croatia), haw-HT: 
Hawaiian(Haiti), haw-HU: Hawaiian(Hungary), haw-ID: Hawaiian(Indonesia), 
haw-IE: Hawaiian(Ireland), haw-IL: Hawaiian(Israel), haw-IN: 
Hawaiian(India), haw-IO: Hawaiian(British Indian Ocean Territory), 
haw-IQ: Hawaiian(Iraq), haw-IR: Hawaiian(Iran), haw-IS: 
Hawaiian(Iceland), haw-IT: Hawaiian(Italy), haw-JM: Hawaiian(Jamaica), 
haw-JO: Hawaiian(Jordan), haw-JP: Hawaiian(Japan), haw-JT: 
Hawaiian(Johnston Island), haw-KE: Hawaiian(Kenya), haw-KG: 
Hawaiian(Kyrgyzstan), haw-KH: Hawaiian(Cambodia), haw-KI: 
Hawaiian(Kiribati), haw-KM: Hawaiian(Comoros), haw-KN: Hawaiian(Saint 
Kitts and Nevis), haw-KP: Hawaiian(North Korea), haw-KR: Hawaiian(South 
Korea), haw-KW: Hawaiian(Kuwait), haw-KY: Hawaiian(Cayman Islands), 
haw-KZ: Hawaiian(Kazakhstan), haw-LA: Hawaiian(Laos), haw-LB: 
Hawaiian(Lebanon), haw-LC: Hawaiian(Saint Lucia), haw-LI: 
Hawaiian(Liechtenstein), haw-LK: Hawaiian(Sri Lanka), haw-LR: 
Hawaiian(Liberia), haw-LS: Hawaiian(Lesotho), haw-LT: 
Hawaiian(Lithuania), haw-LU: Hawaiian(Luxembourg), haw-LV: 
Hawaiian(Latvia), haw-LY: Hawaiian(Libya), haw-MA: Hawaiian(Morocco), 
haw-MC: Hawaiian(Monaco), haw-MD: Hawaiian(Moldova), haw-MG: 
Hawaiian(Madagascar), haw-MH: Hawaiian(Marshall Islands), haw-MI: 
Hawaiian(Midway Islands), haw-MK: Hawaiian(Macedonia), haw-ML: 
Hawaiian(Mali), haw-MM: Hawaiian(Myanmar), haw-MN: Hawaiian(Mongolia), 
haw-MO: Hawaiian(Macao S.A.R., China), haw-MP: Hawaiian(Northern Mariana 
Islands), haw-MQ: Hawaiian(Martinique), haw-MR: Hawaiian(Mauritania), 
haw-MS: Hawaiian(Montserrat), haw-MT: Hawaiian(Malta), haw-MU: 
Hawaiian(Mauritius), haw-MV: Hawaiian(Maldives), haw-MW: 
Hawaiian(Malawi), haw-MX: Hawaiian(Mexico), haw-MY: Hawaiian(Malaysia), 
haw-MZ: Hawaiian(Mozambique), haw-NA: Hawaiian(Namibia), haw-NC: 
Hawaiian(New Caledonia), haw-NE: Hawaiian(Niger), haw-NF: 
Hawaiian(Norfolk Island), haw-NG: Hawaiian(Nigeria), haw-NI: 
Hawaiian(Nicaragua), haw-NL: Hawaiian(Netherlands), haw-NO: 
Hawaiian(Norway), haw-NP: Hawaiian(Nepal), haw-NQ: Hawaiian(Dronning 
Maud Land), haw-NR: Hawaiian(Nauru), haw-NT: Hawaiian(Neutral Zone), 
haw-NU: Hawaiian(Niue), haw-NZ: Hawaiian(New Zealand), haw-OM: 
Hawaiian(Oman), haw-PA: Hawaiian(Panama), haw-PC: Hawaiian(Pacific 
Islands Trust Territory), haw-PE: Hawaiian(Peru), haw-PF: 
Hawaiian(French Polynesia), haw-PG: Hawaiian(Papua New Guinea), haw-PH: 
Hawaiian(Philippines), haw-PK: Hawaiian(Pakistan), haw-PL: 
Hawaiian(Poland), haw-PM: Hawaiian(Saint Pierre and Miquelon), haw-PN: 
Hawaiian(Pitcairn), haw-PR: Hawaiian(Puerto Rico), haw-PS: 
Hawaiian(Palestinian Territory), haw-PT: Hawaiian(Portugal), haw-PU: 
Hawaiian(U.S. Miscellaneous Pacific Islands), haw-PW: Hawaiian(Palau), 
haw-PY: Hawaiian(Paraguay), haw-PZ: Hawaiian(Panama Canal Zone), haw-QA: 
Hawaiian(Qatar), haw-QO: Hawaiian(Outlying Oceania), haw-RE: 
Hawaiian(Reunion), haw-RO: Hawaiian(Romania), haw-RU: Hawaiian(Russia), 
haw-RW: Hawaiian(Rwanda), haw-SA: Hawaiian(Saudi Arabia), haw-SB: 
Hawaiian(Solomon Islands), haw-SC: Hawaiian(Seychelles), haw-SD: 
Hawaiian(Sudan), haw-SE: Hawaiian(Sweden), haw-SG: Hawaiian(Singapore), 
haw-SH: Hawaiian(Saint Helena), haw-SI: Hawaiian(Slovenia), haw-SJ: 
Hawaiian(Svalbard and Jan Mayen), haw-SK: Hawaiian(Slovakia), haw-SL: 
Hawaiian(Sierra Leone), haw-SM: Hawaiian(San Marino), haw-SN: 
Hawaiian(Senegal), haw-SO: Hawaiian(Somalia), haw-SR: 
Hawaiian(Suriname), haw-ST: Hawaiian(Sao Tome and Principe), haw-SU: 
Hawaiian(Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), haw-SV: Hawaiian(El 
Salvador), haw-SY: Hawaiian(Syria), haw-SZ: Hawaiian(Swaziland), haw-TC: 
Hawaiian(Turks and Caicos Islands), haw-TD: Hawaiian(Chad), haw-TF: 
Hawaiian(French Southern Territories), haw-TG: Hawaiian(Togo), haw-TH: 
Hawaiian(Thailand), haw-TJ: Hawaiian(Tajikistan), haw-TK: 
Hawaiian(Tokelau), haw-TL: Hawaiian(East Timor), haw-TM: 
Hawaiian(Turkmenistan), haw-TN: Hawaiian(Tunisia), haw-TO: 
Hawaiian(Tonga), haw-TR: Hawaiian(Turkey), haw-TT: Hawaiian(Trinidad and 
Tobago), haw-TV: Hawaiian(Tuvalu), haw-TW: Hawaiian(Taiwan), haw-TZ: 
Hawaiian(Tanzania), haw-UA: Hawaiian(Ukraine), haw-UG: Hawaiian(Uganda), 
haw-UM: Hawaiian(United States Minor Outlying Islands), haw-US: 
Hawaiian(United States), haw-UY: Hawaiian(Uruguay), haw-UZ: 
Hawaiian(Uzbekistan), haw-VA: Hawaiian(Vatican), haw-VC: Hawaiian(Saint 
Vincent and the Grenadines), haw-VD: Hawaiian(North Vietnam), haw-VE: 
Hawaiian(Venezuela), haw-VG: Hawaiian(British Virgin Islands), haw-VI: 
Hawaiian(U.S. Virgin Islands), haw-VN: Hawaiian(Vietnam), haw-VU: 
Hawaiian(Vanuatu), haw-WF: Hawaiian(Wallis and Futuna), haw-WK: 
Hawaiian(Wake Island), haw-WS: Hawaiian(Samoa), haw-YD: 
Hawaiian(People's Democratic Republic of Yemen), haw-YE: 
Hawaiian(Yemen), haw-YT: Hawaiian(Mayotte), haw-ZA: Hawaiian(South 
Africa), haw-ZM: Hawaiian(Zambia), haw-ZW: Hawaiian(Zimbabwe)

Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

> --On onsdag, september 28, 2005 04:19:18 -0700 Tex Texin 
> <tex at> wrote:
>> It's a good reason not to Register generative tags.
>> So when someone requests a tag now, what is the reviewer to look at?
>> We used to identify a few representative books, which I always thought
>> meant we were identifying a particular set of rules around the language
>> (spelling, orthography).
>> The registration for el-Latn more or less stipulates the need for
>> transliteration, mentions that they exist, with  a link to a site that
>> collects transliteration systems. (Which btw, I think is a really bad 
>> idea
>> in the event the site goes away or completely changes its list of
>> reference materials.) But it doesn't really nail down what it is. (It
>> mentions a standard, but doesn't say the tag is referring to that
>> particular standard.
>> So we are no longer identifying a reference or a particular language, 
>> but
>> just the concept that there seems to be something like a language of 
>> this
>> persuasion. I guess we were asking for this with es-419. (Which I was
>> also a proponent of.)
> Yep.
> For this particular request, one reason why I don't care much what the 
> registration says is that we have a community consensus that anyone 
> using a tag consisting of a 639 language and a script doesn't have to 
> register it - he can just use it if he thinks it's appropriate for his 
> content.
> So we'd better get used to a world where we encounter tags of that 
> nature.
> Translation is not a new subject for this list - transliteration 
> warranted a section in Peter Constable's 2002 SIL report 
> <>, and I've found 
> mention of transliteration in the archives in 1998. (Google doesn't 
> seem to search the old archives consistently, however.. I'd better 
> move them....)
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