zh-Hant-xx, zh-Hans-xx

James Seng james at seng.cc
Thu Mar 17 05:47:57 CET 2005 

For the record, I have no problem with Mark sending this email to the=20
list.

1. I did not see any reply from Jiankang to indicate he understood (or=20=

otherwise) what you implied.

2. Sorry my english isn't that good enough to know there is a=20
difference between "little to do" and "nothing to do" - in my world,=20
those means the same to me.

Harald, as General AD, I request you initiate RFC 3683 on JFC as=20
requested by several members of the lists. And yes, I support it.

-James Seng

On 17-Mar-05, at PM 12:07, JFC (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:

> Dear Mark,
> I see that ad-hominem and disclosure of private mails continue.
> And that you make yourself part of it!
>
> Since we are in this mood: this gives me the opportunity
> to read two interesting points from James.
>
> 1) he keeps going with his fairy tale. This may not help him.
>
>    Jiankiang has perfectly understood that I was not saying
>    that James was not a good source to talk about Chinese
>    or Malaysian. He also perfectly understood that we were
>    not talking of IDNs. And that I though counterproductive
>    to call on a non-Chinese citizen to document the IANA
>    registration of the Chinese language by Microsoft.
>
> 2) he also says - and he certainly is THE specialist of
>    IDNA that this list has little to do with IDN. Thanks!
>     This is the consistency of this "little" (and not that
>     "nothing" Peter fully used in a mail) I make sure is
>     not forgotten.
>
> jfc
>
>
>
> At 18:41 16/03/2005, Mark Davis wrote:
>> Here is the message from James. There must have been some problem in=20=

>> email,
>> since you are included in the address list.
>>
>> I don't know what else you want as far as concensus. I strongly favor=20=

>> these,
>> and a number of others have spoken out in favor of them.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Seng" <james at seng.cc>
>> To: "Michael Everson" <everson at evertype.com>
>> Cc: "Peter Constable" <petercon at microsoft.com>; "James Seng"
>> <jseng at pobox.org.sg>; <lee at cnnic.cn>; "Mark Davis"=20
>> <mark.davis at unicode.org>;
>> <mao at cnnic.cn>; "Yao Jiankang" <yaojk at cnnic.cn>
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 11:48
>> Subject: Re: Status of zh-* proposals
>>
>>
>> Jiankang,
>>
>> The purpose of zh-* proposals started because Mark Davis have a whole
>> set of Chinese documents needed to be encoded but does not fall=20
>> exactly
>> into zh-tw, zh-cn, etc.
>>
>> This was 2-3 years back and I believe several Unicode experts have=20
>> been
>> consulted - check with Joe Zhang.
>>
>> In short, I support the current zh-* into the IANA registries. The
>> purpose for those tags have little to do with IDN.
>>
>> And I agree with Michael - Morfin does not know what he is talking
>> about.
>>
>> ps: I am still the SC2 representative for Singapore and also for WG2
>> and IRG and for Morfin to suggest I am not qualified, he is obviously
>> out of line.
>>
>> -James Seng
>>
>> On 08-Mar-05, at AM 03:35, Michael Everson wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Yao Jiankang,
>> >
>> > At 03:16 +0800 2005-03-08, Yao Jiankang wrote:
>> >> Dear JEF and Michael,
>> >>
>> >>    Thanks a lot for JEF's comments. It is unwise to register
>> >> Microsoft as the
>> >> Referent of the Chinese languages in the IANA tables.
>> >
>> > I'm sorry to say so, but Mr Morfin doesn't have any idea what he is
>> > talking about. I am copying three experts here who *can* talk=20
>> sensibly
>> > about these matters.
>> >
>> >> CNNIC under Chinese Academy of Sciences is authorized by state
>> >> government and a non-profit organization which will be the best
>> >> represenative in IANA for Chinese language tables.
>> >>
>> >> Now I am specilizing IDN and Internationalization of email address
>> >> which are
>> >> also have relative to Chinese Language Tables.
>> >>
>> >>    I also copy the letter to MAO Wei (General Director of =
CNNIC)and
>> >> LEE Xiaodong
>> >> (leader of technic department of CNNIC)for information.
>> >>
>> >>    Thanks a lot!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yao Jiankang
>> >> CNNIC
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =CC"=CC=FB=CC=B3=CC=BC=E5=B5=CC=B3=CC=A5=E5=AB=CC=C6=CC=B7=CC=D0=CC=C6=
=CC"=CC=FC=E5=B2-=CC=D4=CC=C1=E5=B5=E5=B8:
>> >>> From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey at jefsey.com>
>> >>> Reply-To:
>> >>> To: michael Everson <everson at evertype.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: Status of zh-* proposals
>> >>> Date:Sun, 06 Mar 2005 05:31:33 +0100
>> >>>
>> >>> On 22:13 05/03/2005, Michael Everson said:
>> >>>  >At 13:01 -0800 2005-03-05, Doug Ewell wrote:
>> >>>  >>I was wondering about the status of the 10 proposals submitted=20=

>> a
>> >>> month
>> >>>  >>ago by Mark Davis, for tags of the form zh-{Hans, Hant}-{CN,=20=

>> HK,
>> >>> MO, SG,
>> >>>  >>TW}.
>> >>>  >
>> >>>  >>In any case, it should be possible to demonstrate, using these
>> >>> book
>> >>>  >>references or otherwise, that (for instance) zh-TW differs =
from
>> >>> zh-HK,
>> >>>  >>that both can be and are written in either Hans or Hant, and=20=

>> that
>> >>> there
>> >>>  >>is a need to tag all four of these situations.
>> >>>  >
>> >>>  >I would like Mark and Peter to get James Seng's explicit view =
on
>> >>> this, for
>> >>>  >instance. He knows a lot about IDN, and about Chinese.
>> >>>
>> >>>  Dear Michael,
>> >>>  I did not want to say this on the public list, but I do not =
think
>> >>> it is a
>> >>>  good idea for this list and for the IANA to ask James Seng to=20
>> talk
>> >>> on
>> >>>  behalf of China. Nor to register Microsoft as the Referent of =
the
>> >>> Chinese
>> >>>  languages in the IANA tables. I even feel both are highly
>> >>> inapropriate.
>> >>>
>> >>>  I gave you the list of the ccTLD Managers for the countries IBM=20=

>> and
>> >>>  Microsoft want to be the Referent of the language. I can only
>> >>> repeat my
>> >>>  strong advise that you contact their ccTLD Managers first, as =
the
>> >>> IESG
>> >>>  registration adviser for the IANA language tag registry. By
>> >>> courtesy and
>> >>>  out of respect for their national sovereignty and for the=20
>> authority
>> >>> as the
>> >>>  trustee of their local communities.
>> >>>  jfc
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  * http://www.evertype.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> =89=A5=DAMark
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Everson" <everson at evertype.com>
>> To: "IETF Languages Discussion" <ietf-languages at iana.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 09:22
>> Subject: Re: zh-Hant-xx, zh-Hans-xx
>>
>>
>> > Mark, I do not have a record of discussion from James on this=20
>> matter,
>> > nor have I seen the consensus that I asked for from the IETF list.
>> >
>> > At 07:07 -0800 2005-03-16, Mark Davis wrote:
>> > >You indicated that you were waiting on feedback from James Seng=20
>> before
>> > >approving these. He supplied his feedback, which was in favor. We=20=

>> need to
>> > >get a resolution on these, and it is well past the two week period
>> specified
>> > >in http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt.
>> > >
>> > >Could you please let us know whether you are going to approve=20
>> these or
>> not,
>> > >so that if you don't, we can begin the appeals process to the=20
>> IESGas
>> > >specified in RFC 3066?
>> > >
>> > >Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  * http://www.evertype.com
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ietf-languages mailing list
>> > Ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
>> > http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
>> >
>>
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