recently-approved tags

nne mmanwu nnemanwu at
Wed Apr 13 03:49:18 CEST 2005

I've been on this list for a few months now and can't say that I'm an expert on matters discussed.  As a result, you don't see me posting, I just keep reading.  My need for ISO 639 codes brought me here.  Sometimes the subject matter is interesting to me and clear; other times I'm scratching my head and visiting other sites in an effort to fill the gaps in my knowledge.
You (Jefsey) as a topic on this list has been more than entertaining.  (I don't think I'll ever forget the time when somebody asked why you were so upset, something like: did a bridge collapse this week or what?  I laughed heartily.) 
Something worth asking yourself is, are you helping or not?  Let me do a little cut-and-paste:
Said Jefsey:
I DO hope that everyone 
agrees with me that everywhere, in every time, peace is mostly threaten by 
"sorcerer's apprentices".
It's always dangerous to use words such as "all", "every" (as you did), "any", "never", etc. unless you're sure.  How do you know that "in every time" wannabe sorcercers threaten peace?  Could a full-fledged sorcerer not pre-empt his pupils and take action first?  Could not his estranged wife, a local witch, decide to beat him to the punch thereby letting him know a woman is to be taken seriously?  Or maybe only 49.35% of sorcerers' apprentices harbor such sentiments and only 2.71% of those actually make their dreams a reality, and all of these prior to 1054 C.E.  (I won't even bother to ask where my local recruiting office is or what modern-day sorcery entails.)
But I didn't write this email to get into sorcery - I'm just having serious fun with that one - I wrote to register my concern with the following Jefseyism:
 I did not expect that anyone - but those who want 
we have 200 European, Asian, African students to register this list and the 
WG-ltru - would feel concerned. Except as threaten and incitated at being 
careful at not calling them in.
Now it appears English is not your first language.  That's okay.  But because it is not your first language, you've got to take care.  What exactly are you saying in the quote?  I won't even hazard a guess.  But I will tell you, had you delivered that bit of English on the streets of Lagos or Bangalore, you might not get home in one piece even if you meant no harm.  I don't know which continent France is this list closed to all European students?  Are students at the Sorbonne also proscribed?  Are South American students to feel welcome or should they take umbrage at not even being mentioned?  Do you get bounced off the list if you decide to go for a masters or a PhD?
Let's pretend you were assaulted on the streets of Prague by university students.  What would you tell the local authorities was the reason for your thorough trouncing?  Should I take offence as an African?  I'm telling you, you don't sound friendly...never really have.  By the way, I don't live in Prague and I don't have any intention of circulating fliers or emails on any university campus so...don't forward this email to the authorities and start something somewhere - unless you include a url to the list archive so they can evaluate for themselves who should be brought in for questioning.
My questions are rhetorical (because I don't want you to feel that you have to respond.)  Just honestly ask yourself: is confrontation your preferred mode of engagement?  Why should you want to be the "entertainment" or comic relief on this list?  Or is it a "one man against the world" thing?  (No joy unless you're coloring outside the lines or on somebody else's paper?  If so, what do you think that means?)  How will future generations of Morfins regard their sire when they view his contributions to this list in the event your entries survive the decades?
Always remember to take a deep breath before you begin to type.  But I don't mind laughing if you don't mind playing the clown.

"JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey at> wrote:
Dear Peter,
I do not think this threat is of real interest as it takes words out of 
their obvious (or at least intended) context. I DO hope that everyone 
agrees with me that everywhere, in every time, peace is mostly threaten by 
"sorcerer's apprentices". I did not expect that anyone - but those who want 
we have 200 European, Asian, African students to register this list and the 
WG-ltru - would feel concerned. Except as threaten and incitated at being 
careful at not calling them in.

Now, I take you for someone serious and honnest (you are, and you know it, 
the most respected one among us). I propose you an experience. Please read 
the IESG WG-ltru Charter, read your texts. And ask yourself why you puzzle 
a French thinking centric mailing list, with people from all over the world 
(AFRAC is a France based test project with projected independent national 

To help you I will try to list and prioritize the criteria I am dayly 
confronted to:

- to be clever, realistic, honnest and to consider the real world and 
technology as it is - as a consistent challenging and funny continuity.
- to smartly respect the detail of the rules even if they are known to 
change, and therefore to have no problem considering their orderly change.
- to deeply care and respect people for who they are, for their rights, for 
their personal development, for their final decision.
- to comment on reading and understanding - never on feeling (worst error 
:-) - trying to kindly make understand those who don't
- no to trust (more American), not to distrust (more Asian) people and 
ideas, to look at every proposition and judging by its a to z elegance.

You may feel how an "IETF list" aproximation for 
"ietf-languages at" sounds to us so unprofessional, or "American 
plot" biaised :-), while you do not even see a problem.
All the best.

At 21:40 12/04/2005, Peter Constable wrote:
> > From: ietf-languages-bounces at [mailto:ietf-languages-
> > bounces at] On Behalf Of JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
> > >I received your mail on the IETF language tags list and I responded
>to it
> > >there. Perhaps you could just refrain from posting here at all.
> >
> > I am afraid you have to chose. Either this list is a private list,
> > might justify your suggestion. Either it is a IANA list and your
> > is innapropriate. Or it is an IETF list (but to my knowledge no one
> > suggested it) and your suggestion is a violation of the IETF rules.
>We all know it is a public list, but it *is* an IETF list, and subject
>to IETF rules. AFAICT, it does not violate any IETF rule to suggest that
>someone refrain from posting to the list. In fact, we well know that
>there are IETF procedures by which someone can be kept from posting to
>the list. Michael isn't always the most tactful in email interchanges,
>but I don't think I've seen him step beyond the degree to which he has
>been provoked.
>Michael complained about a remark you made on this list (in English).
>Your decidedly unhelpful and response was
>Michael, my mail was copied to the AFRAC list. This remark (in French)
>concerned some members of the AFRAC mailing list we call this way. But
>if you think it applies to others ... after all, some of us who have
>done some work in some areas would certainly hate contradicting you.
>It is no defence to contend that your comment was intended for members
>of some other list which you blindly copied -- for anyone on *this*
>list, every appearance was that you were referring to activity on *this*
>list, hence making your remarks about members of *this* list.
> > To my understanding however the present list has never been discussed
> > being an IETF list. However considering the idea, it could be good
> > this list could be a permanent IETF WG, publishing regular (yearly)
> > as RFC maintained through regular Drafts. This could actually solve a
> > of IANA related issues, since the Drafts and RFCs are a very well
> > established system.
>This list has functioned reasonably and sufficiently well for many
>years, serving a particular purpose that is well defined in an IETF
>document. Your suggestion to change significantly the purpose of this
>list is unhelpful; your repeated suggestions for the same are becoming
>Peter Constable
>Ietf-languages mailing list
>Ietf-languages at

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