Proposed Successor to RFC 3066 (language tags)

Wed Nov 26 20:13:18 CET 2003

Hi Randy

I think you will find that ISO 639-3 is based around SILs Ethnologue... I am
sure they could be classed as a specific vendor with a specific product...
nevertheless...

All ISO standards are sold by the respective standards authorities in the
various countries on behalf of ISO with all monies going to ISO.
Linguasphere ICT will not receive any monies from the sale of standards and
the full coding system will be available freely on the web upon completion.

However, we do have to fund the organisation and research (sadly nothing in
this life comes for free - and I personally have 3 children, 3 dogs, a cat,
a gerbil and a goldfish to support) so we charge large corporate and
government bodies for the additional information contained within the
Linguasphere full database and published in the Linguasphere Register...
such as geographical mapping, history, demographics etc.  Although the full
database will also be freely available for research purposes online for use
by the general public and industry alike.  I hope this clarifies the
situation and that Linguasphere now has your sympathy.

Best wishes

Debbie Garside
Linguasphere ICT

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no
[mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no]On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn
Sent: 26 November 2003 16:43
To: ietf-languages at iana.org
Subject: Re: Proposed Successor to RFC 3066 (language tags)

Hi -

Am I the only one who finds the whole idea of basing a standard
on a specific vendor's product repugnant?  If they made the information
freely available to all I might be more sympathetic, but it sounds
like that is far from the case here.

Randy

> From: "Debbie Garside" <debbie at ictmarketing.co.uk>
> To: "Michael Everson" <everson at evertype.com>; <ietf-languages at iana.org>
> Cc: <iso639 at dkuug.dk>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 7:14 AM
> Subject: RE: Proposed Successor to RFC 3066 (language tags)
>

> As an expert in languages and coding systems, I am sorry that you cannot
see
> the use of the Linguasphere product in globalisation/defence/mobile
> technologies/internet applications to mention but a few.  As to the
> Linguasphere database being expensive... it has never been offered for
sale.
> The printed register is available for £100 plus P+P to interested parties.
> However, Linguasphere have given many many copies of the register away
free
> in exchange for updated information from experts such as yourself.  If you
> would like a copy of the Register and would like to suggest corrections or
> make comments on its content you will find our response most welcoming;
> Indeed Linguasphere actively encourages contact with linguists worldwide
in
> order to correct, add and update the information.
>
> I see that you are based in Dublin, I will have occasion to be in Dublin
4-5
> times a year for the next 3 years starting in January (in relation to
> another international project with Irish partners based in Dublin) I would
> welcome the opportunity to meet with you in order to discuss the
methodology
> for distinguishing language and dialect and to deliver a copy of the
> Linguasphere register at the same time.
>
> Kind regards
>
>
> Debbie Garside
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no
> [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces at alvestrand.no]On Behalf Of Michael
> Everson
> Sent: 25 November 2003 09:48
> To: ietf-languages at iana.org
> Cc: iso639 at dkuug.dk
> Subject: RE: Proposed Successor to RFC 3066 (language tags)
>
>
> At 14:18 +0000 2003-11-24, Debbie Garside wrote:
>
> >Linguasphere ICT are developing ISO 639-6.  In a nutshell, 639-6 will
bring
> >all the IS0 639 family together.  We will be proposing unique alpha4
codes
> >for each individual language/dialect.  Further proposals are scheduled
for
> >May 2004 with regard to the dating of languages/dialects and a
structuring
> >code.  Linguasphere ICT has also related each language to its hierachical
> >mother via the alpha4 coding system; in excess of 25,000 languages and
> >dialects have already been coded in this way.(you might note I am not a
> >linguist but am more computer orientated).
>
> I would reject such a standard. In the first place Linguasphere's
> database is expensive and unavailable; in the second, what I have
> seen of it (the PDF about Irish available on its web site) make me
> deeply distrustful of its methodology for distinguishing "language"
> and "dialect". It is doubtful that such a level of granularity is
> either useful or desirable in an ISO standard.
>
> >As far as I am aware, SIL are on track with 639-3, indeed a draft CD has
> >been circulated for comments by end Dec 2003.  I am sure Havard will
> respond
> >on this with schedules.
>
> I haven't seen it, but it is difficult to follow the workings of that
> committee because of the way documents and information are
> distributed.
>
> >We would very much welcome your input on this important extension of the
> ISO
> >639 family.
>
> As an expert in languages and coding, quite honestly, I would say
> "don't bother".
> --
> Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  * http://www.evertype.com
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