Suggestion: Tag or Sub- tag for Scientific names
Martin Duerst
duerst at w3.org
Mon Feb 3 09:23:44 CET 2003
It may also be possible to use 'not in any language' (e.g.
xml:lang=""). Regards, Martin.
At 19:42 03/02/02 -0500, Tex Texin wrote:
>John Clews wrote: "A general mechanism for 'Tag as "do not translate"' might
>be more effective..."
>
>
>That was my thought too. However we don't need a language tag for that, markup
>will do.
>
>tex
>
>John Clews wrote:
> >
> > As such, I would oppose a tag for scientific Latin: what's here in
> > the examples is loan words, which occur in every language.
> >
> > What specific user need is served by the use of any tag for
> > "scientific Latin" that is not served by existing language tags?
> >
> > Not to mention all the denotation issues as to "when is it
> > scientific, and when is it ordinary Latin, and when is it just
> > loan words?"
> >
> > A general mechanism for 'Tag as "do not translate"' might be more
> > effective than this specific request for a new tag, in the examples
> > below. Overall, a tag for scientific Latin is a sledgehammer to crack
> > a nut, and possibly seeking to use the wrong tool for this particular
> > problem anyway.
> >
> > I'd be interested in any further justification.
> >
> > John Clews
> >
> > In message <DfDdMd+WS+O+EwRK at pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> > ietf-languages at pigsonthewing.org.uk writes:
> >
> > > LANGUAGE TAG REGISTRATION FORM
> > >
> > > Name of requester : Andy Mabbett
> > >
> > > E-mail address of requester: andy at pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > >
> > > Tag to be registered : SC (or possibly "LA-sci")
> > >
> > > English name of language :
> > >
> > > Scientific names (aka "Latin names") of living things
> > > ("Scientific Latin")
> > >
> > > Native name of language (transcribed into ASCII): n/a
> > >
> > > Reference to published description of the language (book or article):
> > >
> > > There is no single published description of this "pseudo
> > > language". However, the following small sample of the available
> > > literature may be of use:
> > >
> > > The Christian Science Monitor "What's in a scientific
> > > name? Maybe your own."
> > >
> > >
> <http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2001/01/04/fp15s1-csm.shtml>
> > >
> > >
> > > Curiosities of Biological Nomenclature
> > >
> > >
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~misaak/taxonomy.html>
> > >
> > > A Dictionary of Scientific Bird Names.
> > > Kastner, J.
> > > Oxford University Press. 1986.
> > >
> > > The Dictionary of American Bird Names.
> > > Choate, Ernest A. Revised by R. A. Paynter, Jr.
> > > Harvard Common Press. 1985
> > >
> > > CRC World Dictionary of Plant Names: Common Names,
> > > Scientific Names, Eponyms, Synonyms, and Etymology
> > > Umberto Quattrocchi
> > > CRC Press November 1999
> > >
> > > Elsevier's Dictionary of Plant Names in Latin,
> > > English, French, German and Italian
> > > M Wrobel and G Creber
> > > Elsevier 1996
> > >
> > > The Scientific Names of the British Lepidoptera - Their
> > > History and Meaning
> > > A. Maitland
> > > Harley Books 1991
> > >
> > > Plus the many websites listed at:
> > >
> > >
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~misaak/taxonomy.html>
> > >
> > > and titles listed at:
> > >
> > >
> <http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dbooks%26fie
> ld-subject%3DScientific%20nomenclature%20%20cl> >
> assification/202-3492600-6446218>
> > >
> > >
> > > Any other relevant information:
> > >
> > > There is currently no language tag to denote the use of
> > > the scientific names (often erroneously called "Latin
> > > names") of living things, such as plants and animals
> > > (e.g. Homo sapiens). While such names are often composed
> > > of, or derived from, Latin terms, they can also be
> > > created from "Latinised" words taken from other
> > > languages, including Greek, English & other Western
> > > languages, languages local to the habitat of the plant
> > > or creature described, place names, word- play, family
> > > names and even words invented for fiction (e.g.
> > > characters in Tolkien or Star Trek).
> > >
> > > For example:
> > >
> > > Brachypelma albopilosum
> > > (Brachypelma, from the Greek)
> > >
> > > Ekgmowechashala philotae
> > > (the North American Lakota language)
> > >
> > > Uluops uluops
> > > (from "ulu", an Eskimo knife)
> > >
> > > Linnaea borealis
> > > (in honour of Linneaus)
> > >
> > > Ardeola grayii
> > > (in honour of John Edward Gray, a
> > > biologist)
> > >
> > > Nepenthes sumatrana
> > > (from the place name "Sumatra")
> > >
> > > Phyllidia polkadotsa
> > > ("polka-dotted")
> > >
> > > Draculoides bramstokeri
> > > (in honour of the character Dracula and
> > > its author, Bram Stoker)
> > >
> > > Calponea harrisonfordi
> > > (in honour of Harrison Ford, the actor)
> > >
> > > Ba humbugi
> > > (a quote from Dickens' 'A Christmas
> > > Carol')
> > >
> > > Ytu brutus
> > > (a quote from Shakespeare, "Et U,
> > > Brutus?)
> > >
> > > Polemistus chewbacca
> > > (a character from the film 'Star Wars')
> > >
> > > Crex crex
> > > (onomatopoeia)
> > >
> > > Phthiria relativitae
> > > (a play on "The Theory of Relativity")
> > >
> > > Abra cadabra
> > > (a magical pun)
> > >
> > > Orizabus subaziro
> > > (a palindrome)
> > >
> > > Agra vation
> > > (a play on "aggravation")
> > >
> > > Bombylius aureocookae
> > > (a play on "oreo cookie")
> > >
> > > Heerz lukenatcha
> > > (a play on "here's looking at you")
> > >
> > > Cyclocephala nodanotherwon
> > > (a play on "not another one")
> > >
> > > Zyzzyx chilensis
> > > (???!!!)
> > >
> > >
> > > The use of the tag "LA" for Latin, while it may act as a
> > > useful guide for pronunciation in some cases, is clearly
> > > inappropriate for many such names, which will not occur
> > > in regular Latin dictionaries.
> > >
> > > I propose a tag for such names (which commonly occur in
> > > the midst of prose written in another language), or,
> > > alternatively, a sub- tag of the "LA" tag.
> > >
> > > The tag will allow clients to be aware that they should
> > > NOT translate Scientific names when translating the text
> > > of a document in which they are included; Homo sapiens
> > > is Homo sapiens in French, German, English or Serbo-
> > > Croat.
> > >
> > > There is convention to abbreviate second occurrences of
> > > such names:
> > >
> > > <http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000047.htm>
> > >
> > > thus:
> > >
> > > "Homo sapiens has a bigger brain that H.
> > > erectus"
> > >
> > > and that the proposed tag (or sub-tag) will potentially
> > > allow the second such occurrence to be pronounced in
> > > full by speech synthesis software, as it would be in
> > > normal speech:
> > >
> > > "Homo sapiens has a bigger brain that Homo
> > > erectus"
> > >
> > > Scientific names are conventionally rendered, on paper
> > > or screen, in italics (or sometimes underlined) <ibid.>;
> > > a unique tag will potentially allow rendering to be
> > > facilitated automatically by clients (or via style
> > > sheets in HTML and other mark- up schema).
> > >
> > >
> > > I am grateful to Harald Tveit Alvestrand for his
> > > response to my initial suggestion.
> > >
> > > I have been advised that an "asbestos proof" suit might
> > > be needed; as a newcomer to this system, I trust that
> > > this will not be the case; I will gladly submit a
> > > revised proposal, in the light of guidance from friends
> > > more learned and familiar with the procedure than I.
> > > Comments from zoologists, botanists or taxonomists would
> > > also be welcome.
> > > --
> > > Andy Mabbett
> > >
> > > Birmingham, UK
> > > andy at pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andy Mabbett
> > >
> > > Birmingham, UK
> > > andy at pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ietf-languages mailing list
> > > Ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> > > http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > John Clews
> >
> > --
> > John Clews,
> > Keytempo Limited (Information Management),
> > 8 Avenue Rd, Harrogate, HG2 7PG
> > Tel: 01423 888 432
> > mobile: 07766 711 395
> > Email: Scripts at sesame.demon.co.uk
> > Web: http://www.keytempo.com
> >
> > Committee Member of ISO/IEC/JTC1/SC22/WG20: Internationalization;
> > Committee Member of ISO/TC37/SC2/WG1: Language Codes
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf-languages mailing list
> > Ietf-languages at alvestrand.no
> > http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex at XenCraft.com
>Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com
>
>XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com
>Making e-Business Work Around the World
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