Eszett ( was AW: Esszett, Final Sigma, ZWJ and ZWNJ)

JFC Morfin jefsey at jefsey.com
Tue Feb 24 20:24:42 CET 2009


May I add that French supports calls for uper cases NOT to be folded
but to be supported as characters by their own.
This means that "ecole.fr", "école.fr" and "Ecole.fr" are to be three
different domain names.
jfc


2009/2/24 Alireza Saleh <saleh at nic.ir>:
> Hi,
>
> I agree that these are completely different cases and I think any
> decision about how to treat them should be made at the registry.
>
> For clarifications , a word with  and without ZWNJ can have completely
> different meaning and ZWNJ is not just a separator.
>
> Would you please look at the following example. It shows  that some
> cases are not handled correctly by NFKC and these cases also need
> mapping at IDNA  or making changes to NFKC definitions.
>
> e.g., U+06CE ARABIC LETTER YEH WITH SMALL V and [U+06CC ARABIC LETTER
> FARSI YEH + U+065A ARABIC VOWEL SIGN SMALL V ABOVE] are visually the same
>
> If the group starts mapping, the mapping character list will not be
> ended up to those 2 above mentioned characters and can be longer than that.
> I still think that in a situation  which is not possible to draw a
> border line between confusion free IDNA and IDNA with confusion, it
> might be better to let the registries define this border line according
> to their requirements. Reading  the  discussions regarding individual
> characters  or phrases  makes this idea stronger.
>
> I have said this idea manytimes to the group and I would appreciate if
> anybody can give me a short description about the  reasons behind
> current IDNA charter that prevents registries to decide completely about
> their TLDs when they _still_ require to define partial policies.
>
>
> Best
> Alireza
>
>
> Georg Ochsner wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> - PLEASE let us SPLIT threads when it comes to Eszett, Final Sigma, ZWJ and
>> ZWNJ. The various postings show that they are very different (different
>> languages, different character sets, different most effected registries
>> etc.).
>>
>>
>> Because I am a native German speaker, I would like to add some points to the
>> Eszett thread:
>>
>> - For me there is no common definition what "bits on the wire" exactly
>> means, but taking it literally I think it is obvious that bits on a wire
>> will change if the WG's output will be implemented. (What bigger change of
>> bits can be made, than prohibiting characters (hence entire existing
>> domains) and allowing new ones?)
>>
>> - The possibility of adding Eszett was discussed long before the WG agreed
>> on the charter and it was intended that the charter should not rule this
>> possibility out.
>>
>> - After really detailed discussion there was a consensus call and a duly
>> result in favor of making Eszett PVALID, including the vote of Denic! I am
>> afraid, if we start not accepting consensus call results, then this WG will
>> _talk_ for many more years.
>>
>> - I am sure that the native German speaking registries (Denic, nic.at and
>> SWITCH) are very well aware of what's going on and should be free to make
>> their own, individual decision on how to implement Eszett. They have teams
>> of native speakers, they know the legal situation in their countries and
>> they have the data of registered domains under their zones!
>>
>> - I think, describing clearly the changes made from IDNA2003 to IDNA2008 and
>> giving some examples of handling them is as far as the WG must/should go.
>> The rest as said should be left open to the registries.
>>
>> - If the WG gives some examples on how to handle the new characters/Eszett -
>> and I think there is nothing wrong with that - maybe the list of
>> possibilities should include:
>>  - waiting to allow Eszett until IDNA2008 has spread significantly, i.e.
>> that all current versions of the most common browsers have implemented
>> IDNA2008
>>  - not to add Eszett at all on registry/zone level (like the Swiss registry
>> SWITCH will most probably do, as I suppose)
>>  - to wait and see how the German speaking registries handle the Eszett, if
>> another (generic) registry is not sure about it
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>> Georg
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no
>> [mailto:idna-update-bounces at alvestrand.no] Im Auftrag von Vint Cerf
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 21. Februar 2009 22:02
>> An: idna-update at alvestrand.no
>> Betreff: Esszett, Final Sigma, ZWJ and ZWNJ
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> My reading of the consensus is that the WG has discussed and generally
>> accepted that Esszett, Final Sigma, ZWJ and ZWNJ can be made PVALID.
>> For registries that formerly mapped Esszett or Final Sigma, the
>> solutions are:
>>
>> 1. block registration of Esszett and Final Sigma at the registry level
>> (in which case any former registration forms are still valid but will
>> not be found by entering the newly PVALID characters)
>>
>> 2. Bundle Esszett with "ss" and Final Sigma with lower case ("sigma")
>> (and do so retrospectively for all prior registrations of the mapped
>> forms).
>>
>> With regard to ZWJ and ZWNJ, these would be PVALID but constrained by
>> CONTEXTJ rules as to their valid usage.
>>
>> As I read the charter, the WG has the latitude to adopt these
>> recommendations.
>>
>> It has been pointed out that there are consequences of not mapping
>> characters per IDNA2003. One example relates to the appearance of,
>> e.g., Esszett in a URL. A side-effect of the mapping under IDNA2003 is
>> that the Esszett character would be converted to "ss" and this would
>> match a registration of a domain name that contained Esszett since the
>> registered form would have been mapped prior to registration into the
>> "ss" form. It seems beneficial to articulate to the best of our
>> ability such side-effects as an aid to users, software writers,
>> registries and registrars who may need to define policies for
>> registration limitations or adopt other compensating practices.
>>
>> Vint
>>
>>
>> Vint Cerf
>> Google
>> 1818 Library Street, Suite 400
>> Reston, VA 20190
>> 202-370-5637
>> vint at google.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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