is IDNA the ML-DNS we wait for ?

[Vint Cerf]

Jefsey, et al,

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Vint


On May 17, 2008, at 9:39 AM, JFC Morfin wrote:

> At 04:50 17/05/2008, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 03:29:31AM +0200, jefsey wrote:
>> > If the IETF cannot match the world's expectations in that area  
>> it must say
>> > so now, so others can consider alternative solutions before we see
>> > different  uncoordinated local solutions developed and deployed.
>>
>> I'm not entirely sure anyone knows what the world's expectations are
>> -- I have, personally, a hard time predicting the mood of my current
>> riding's electorate from month to month -- but supposing you had a
>> good handle on what the world's expectations are, why would it be
>> necessarily harmful if a multitude of possible answers emerged before
>> one final one did?  (I have my own list for why, note; I'm asking you
>> for yours.)
>
> Andrew,
> I do not want to discuss the cons and pros of IDNA. This was  
> discussed before. This WG is committed to IDNA. And IDNA has and  
> will keep deploying. My concern is that if IDNA is not to deliver  
> the functionnality the world expect (robust transparency to  
> languages) there will be several local non-coordinated deployments  
> most probably confirmed after the Olympic Games.
>
>> > The world expects a Multilingual DNS that works for every  
>> language and
>> > every script the way the DNS works for English and ASCII. Let us  
>> call this
>> > the ML-DNS specification. It is very simple, terse, and clear.
>>
>> Actually, I think we need some parsing marks to be clear: the desire
>> is "internationalised LDH" (or "iLDH" if we need to invent bits of
>> jargon).  Therefore, the goal of the current work really is [DNS that
>> works for every (Unicode-defined) script] the way [DNS works for  
>> ASCII
>> today].  I want to leave language out of it, because even though
>> humans happen to use labels as signifiers, they're only parts of
>> language in the passing theory of the interlocutors (cf. Donald
>> Davidson).
>
> We agree. This results from ISO 3166 compliance (which is the world  
> referent in terms of sovereignty, scripts-and-languages).
> I thank you for your answers. They will help. I will compile the  
> answers as I did about "funycode".
> jfc
>
>
>> > Question (A): does this IETF WG-IDNABIS seek to document an IDNA  
>> based
>> > ML-DNS in order to be ready for testing by Dec. 2008 (Y/N)?
>>
>> I think the goal is a short document cycle.  Being as it's May, I
>> think December may be a little optimistic.
>> > Question (B): If A is "N",  what are the clearly defined and  
>> committed
>> > detailed specifications of the Nov. 2008 IETF deliverable?
>>
>> This is question begging.  We don't know until the protocol
>> specification is done.
>>
>> > 1- will it be mainly focussed towards Mobiles, Browsers,  
>> Applications, or
>> > the three of them?
>>
>> None or all.  It will be mainly focussed towards labels in the DNS,
>> and their interpretations by IDNA-interpreting clients, whatever they
>> are.
>> > 2- will it be phishing proof at every DN level?
>>
>> No.  Even ASCII isn't.
>> > 3- which scripts or charset and languages will be supported? or  
>> will it be
>> > transparent to scripts choices?
>>
>> This is a loaded question; but I think we're still working out which
>> scripts get included.
>>
>> > 4- will it be IDN2003 compatible?
>>
>> Maybe.
>>
>> > 5- will it strive to be future ML-DNS interoperable?
>>
>> I'm unwilling to speculate.
>>
>> > 6- why was the IDNA option chosen as the best way to support ML- 
>> DNS vs.
>> > other possibilities?
>>
>> I think this is part of what John's current draft is about.
>>
>> > 7- will Microsoft, Google, and Firefox fully and identically  
>> support it?
>> > Will they also permit the support of any other ML-DNS proposition?
>>
>> You'll have to ask them.
>>
>> > 8 - will it support easily additional symbols such as logos?
>>
>> Not as currently outlined.
>>
>> > 9 - will it stay ISO 3166 conformant?
>>
>> I don't think I understand this question.
>>
>> No hat, and best regards,
>>
>> A
>
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