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<div>I would envision that the use case of a traditional phone/video conferencing terminal, security camera, etc. (i.e. always on) is something that would be either not implemented using RTCWeb, or would use some form of an "embedded browser".</div>
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<div>The use case of embedding voice/video/etc. capabilities in a web page in a traditional browser would be more for temporary availability use case. Customer service call, game chat, virtual environment, etc.</div>
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<div>That, of course, is not to say the "always on" case would be impossible to implement in a traditional browser, but at least, for me, wouldn't be my first choice.</div>
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<div>Curious if others agree, or if I am way off-base.</div>
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<div>-Chris</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Erik Lagerway <<a href="mailto:erik@hookflash.com">erik@hookflash.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:30:54 +0200<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Justin Uberti <<a href="mailto:juberti@google.com">juberti@google.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>" <<a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [RTW] My biggest concern<br>
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<div>It could be that this will become more of an apparent issue as the web apps we are speaking of are increasingly used for incoming calls as well? </div>
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<font color="#943634" face="arial,sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse:collapse;line-height:14px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;line-height:normal"><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(148, 54, 52);line-height:14px"><b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-weight:normal;font-size:13px"><font color="#943634"><span style="font-size:small"><b><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-weight:normal;font-size:13px"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:14px;color:rgb(148, 54, 52)">Erik
Lagerway</span><b><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:13px;color:red"> </span></b><span style="color:gray;line-height:13px;font-size:9pt">| hookflash | </span><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:12px;color:gray">m. +1.604.562.8647 |</span><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:12px"><font color="#0000FF"> <a href="http://www.hookflash.com" target="_blank">www.hookflash.com</a></font></span></span></b></span></font></span></b></span><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Justin Uberti <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:juberti@google.com">juberti@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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It's not clear to me that users who close the browser every time they want to go to a new page are the kinds of users who would multi-task while on a call.
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<div>FWIW, we haven't seen this as a problem with our web applications (which alert the user when closing the page when a call is active).
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Robin Raymond <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:robin@hookflash.com" target="_blank">robin@hookflash.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>Except that the alert before a page closed will effectively mean the users can't browser while a call is established. I know they can open tabs but for many more novice users tabs are still complicated and they usually hit the close for the browser instead
of the tab because of their confusion if a new tab is automatically opened for browsing purposes.</div>
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<div>Yes, some UI tricks might help to fix this issue (especially browser concept improvements like background apps) but I think it's important to raise the issue even if it is beyond the scope of the protocol itself. Otherwise a strong protocol will exist
with a fatal flaw (I do understand from a protocol perspective this isn't important). For some websites (like games since), this might not matter but if a user is intending to use their browser for the primary means of communication in the future this is an
issue especially with the way browsers are currently working.</div>
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<div>Robin Raymond</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Harald Alvestrand <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">harald@alvestrand.no</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div>On 03/28/11 14:31, Robin Raymond wrote:
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<div>Pinning as an app tab is not something the average user is going to know how to do and it does not remove the search bar or the ability to navigate away. While it might be a possible solution if browsers added this concept programmatically (relying on
the user is not practical IMHO), that would open another can of worms on how to prevent abuse where ads start creating themselves as auto-pinned "app" tabs.</div>
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<div>While it might not be a concern for the draft per-say, if you design something that in practice doesn't work in the real world it will be a draft/RFC that won't get wildly adopted and that's death for anything as implementation is critical. I think it's
important not to ignore this issue and a workable solution must be found or it will never get used by real users.</div>
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There's an even simpler workaround employed by many pages with in-progress state:<br>
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Attaching a Javascript popup to the "close" action saying "You're in the middle of a call. Do you want to hang up?"<br>
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A more advanced implementation with background app pages would offer multiple choices:<br>
- Suspend the call, but make it available for resumption<br>
- Keep the call open, running in a background page<br>
- Hang up the call<br>
I think Javascript has the necessary hooks, and we can leave this one to the UI designers.<br>
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Harald</font>
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<div>Robin Raymond</div>
<div>hookflash</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Timothy B. Terriberry <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:tterriberry@mozilla.com" target="_blank">tterriberry@mozilla.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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In my own situation, I have a list of common viewed websites at the top<br>
of my browser and a simple accidental click will go to those new pages.<br>
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If that's your biggest concern, then I have good news for you. Firefox 4 has a feature called App Tabs designed to address these use cases (I believe Chrome has something similar, but I don't use it so I don't actually know). More information here:
<a href="http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/what-are-app-tabs" target="_blank">http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/what-are-app-tabs</a>, but the relevant sentence is: "Links to new websites open in a new tab so that your App Tab doesn't change." I think this
does exactly what you want.<br>
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In any case, this is fundamentally an issue for the user-agent, and not, I think, one that has much impact on the actual standards.<br>
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