<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div>I also feel that it's not appropriate to choose VP8 as a mandatory codec. It makes sense to limit any mandatory codecs to standards. <br><br>If VP8 does need to be standardized, the IETF CODEC WG comes to my mind as a possible place to carry out such a standard - I do understand that this WG is currently only focused on audio. I suppose the charter could be changed to include video. One advantage of this WG is that it aims to deliver a royalty-free spec. <br><br>There's also a Call-for-Evidence put out by ISO/MPEG with the aim of starting a royalty-free codec development activity. <br><br>Regards<br><br>Gerard Fernando<br></div><div style="font-family: Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new
york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> David Singer <singer@apple.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> markus.isomaki@nokia.com<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> rtc-web@alvestrand.no; dispatch@ietf.org; ted.ietf@gmail.com<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, 21 December, 2010 13:46:00<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [dispatch] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00<br></font><br>I have to agree. If IPR issues are what we want to avoid, VP8 seems like a poor choice (e.g. <<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/mpeg-la-looking-at-patents-for-googles-vp8webm-video/">http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/mpeg-la-looking-at-patents-for-googles-vp8webm-video/</a>>).<div><br><div><div>On Dec 21, 2010, at 13:38 , <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:markus.isomaki@nokia.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:markus.isomaki@nokia.com">markus.isomaki@nokia.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="WordSection1" style=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Peter, all,</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">About the video codec: Are there any arguments on why VP8 would not have IPR issues? It is available as an open source implementation, but that does not mean there are no IPR against it. My understanding is that the IPR situation wrt. VP8 is still unclear and thus risky. The other issue with VP8 is, as far as I know, the lack of a clear spec out of which independent interoperable implementations can be created.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So I don’t at least buy the argument that we should choose VP8 as mandatory to implement video codec because of IPR reasons.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m working on a separate review on Harald’s drafts (thanks for putting them together) and will come back to the codec issue there in more detail, but just wanted to respond to Peter’s point
here.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> Markus</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left: 1.5pt solid blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;"><div><div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>ext Peter Musgrave<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17 December, 2010 13:48<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Harald
Alvestrand<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank" href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">dispatch@ietf.org</a>; Ted Hardie<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [dispatch] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00</span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">I'd also like to echo Alan's thanks for these drafts. </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">The protocol doc is very clear. [If you read only one dispatch draft this Christmas, make it this one. ;-) ]</div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">One observation to the group. The mandatory to implement video CODEC is VP8 (presumably since it does not have IPR issues - which some other choices would have). </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">Regards, </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">Peter Musgrave</div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica,sans-serif;">Nits</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica,sans-serif;">Introduction</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica,sans-serif;">s/</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">veichle/vehicle/</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">Section 2 Para "Within each.."</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">s/implementaiton/implementation/</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">Section 4 Para1</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">"such as" (something missing here?)</span></div></div><div><div
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">Section 5 Para2</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">"There is no third mandatory to implement" </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">? Was there a mention of a third before. Not sure why this statement is there.</span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div><div><div><div
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">On 2010-11-10, at 6:34 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:</div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><br><br></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">This is the overview document for the IETF-related RTC-WEB work.<br><br>-------- Original Message --------</div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0cm;" valign="top" nowrap="nowrap"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif; text-align: right;"><b>Subject:</b></div></td><td style="padding: 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00</div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0cm;" valign="top" nowrap="nowrap"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif; text-align: right;"><b>Date:</b></div></td><td style="padding: 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">Wed, 10 Nov 2010 03:31:05 -0800 (PST)</div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0cm;" valign="top" nowrap="nowrap"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif; text-align: right;"><b>From:</b></div></td><td style="padding: 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">IETF I-D Submission Tool<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><idsubmission@ietf.org></a></div></td></tr><tr><td style="padding: 0cm;" valign="top" nowrap="nowrap"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif; text-align:
right;"><b>To:</b></div></td><td style="padding: 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no" target="_blank" href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">harald@alvestrand.no</a></div></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </p><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">A new version of I-D, draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Harald Alvestrand and posted to the IETF repository.</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Filename: draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols</pre><pre
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Revision: 00</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Title: Overview: Real Time Protocols for Brower-based Applications</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Creation_date: 2010-11-11</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">WG ID: Independent Submission</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Number_of_pages: 9</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Abstract:</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Courier New';">This document gives an overview of a protocol suite intended for use</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">with real-time applications that can be deployed in browsers - "real</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">time communication on the Web".</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">It intends to serve as a starting and coordination point to make sure</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">all the parts that are needed to achieve this goal are findable, and</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">that the parts that belong in the Internet protocol suite are fully</pre><pre
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">specified and on the right publication track.</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">This work is an attempt to synthesize the input of many people, but</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">makes no claims to fully represent the views of any of them. All</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">parts of the document should be regarded as open for discussion.</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier
New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">The IETF Secretariat.</pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </pre></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;">_______________________________________________<br>dispatch mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">dispatch@ietf.org</a><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch</a></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: serif;"> </div></div></div> _______________________________________________<br>dispatch mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" style="color:
blue; text-decoration: underline;">dispatch@ietf.org</a><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dispatch</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div><div>David Singer</div><div>Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.</div></div></div></span></div></span></span>
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