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On 12/22/10 22:12, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com">Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com</a> wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Hi Harald,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">We can reference things as long as they are
public and stable.
But I also think that if we were to mandate some technology
as part of an IETF
standard, the future development of that technology should
preferably be done
under an open process. How does the future development of
VP8 (or VP9) will
happen from that point of view? I’ve seen some concerns
about this so it would
be good to get the facts.</span></p>
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VP8 (the bitstream format) is not going to change in any
incompatible way. Too much software and hardware is already
dependent on the current definition.<br>
It seems reasonable to do the development of a successor
specification in a standards body, but that's probably going to take
a few years.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
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73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">As long as VP8 spec itself is not published as an
Internet-draft,
I don’t suppose the IETF IPR rules apply to it. So I’m not
sure
which process we are following with it right now. That would
be good to
clarify.</span></p>
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I'm hoping to make that clearer within a few weeks - sorry that I
can't say more yet.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"> Markus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:
windowtext;"> ext Harald Alvestrand
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no">mailto:harald@alvestrand.no</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 22 December, 2010 17:14<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernard Aboba<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Isomaki Markus (Nokia-CIC/Espoo);
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com">peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org">dispatch@ietf.org</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Codec standardization (Re: [RTW]
[dispatch] Fwd: New Version
Notification for
draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/22/10 07:18, Bernard Aboba wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It does appear presumptive to suggest
that a codec that
hasn't completed a standardization process be made
"mandatory to
implement."<br>
<br>
Since there have been some large judgments over use of
allegedly
"free" codecs, the lesson is that codecs that are claimed to
be
"free of encumbrance" may in time be discovered not to be.
The
IETF process can potentially be useful in helping to clarify
the IPR status of
codecs. However, those wheels grind slowly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">I agree that
we can't make
anything mandatory to implement that we don't have an
accepted stable, publicly
available reference for. (I'm working on solving that for
the case of VP8).<br>
<br>
However, I don't agree that we necessarily have to complete
a standards process
in order to refer to it; that would put, for instance, the
Zip format (used,
among other places, in OOXML and ODF) out of scope for
standards.<br>
<br>
WRT IPR issues: I think we just have to push forward on the
assumption that all
IPR holders who are part of the process will do their duty
and disclose any
relevant IPR, and hope that IPR held by nonparticipants in
the process is not
serious enough to cause us to regret our decision.<br>
<br>
Note: The statement about VP8 in the rtcweb-protocols
document is a
placeholder, put in there to indicate that we need to have
the discussion. It's
not a WG decision, but input to a WG discussion.<br>
<br>
Harald<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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