Similarly, codecs that have gone through a standardisation process and have been made available for licensing have later been found to be not "free of encumbrance" and attracted lawsuits, so this argument does not hold up as an argument against open codecs.<br>
<br>The IPR situation of any codec is simply never clear. IPR is not a good argument for or against the choice of a codec. The need to pay royalties, however, is a good argument against a codec, since it limits which parts of the population can use it and which can't.<br>
<br>As for the question about an open specification document for VP8, it is available and can be downloaded from <a href="http://www.webmproject.org/media/pdf/vp8-bitstream.pdf">http://www.webmproject.org/media/pdf/vp8-bitstream.pdf</a> . An independent implementation of VP8 can be made by anyone, see <a href="http://www.webmproject.org/license/bitstream/">http://www.webmproject.org/license/bitstream/</a> .<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Silvia.<br><br><br>On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Bernard Aboba <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bernard_aboba@hotmail.com">bernard_aboba@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
It does appear presumptive to suggest that a codec that hasn't completed a standardization process be made "mandatory to implement."<br><br>Since there have been some large judgments over use of
allegedly "free" codecs, the lesson is that codecs that are claimed to
be "free of encumbrance" may in time be discovered not to be. The IETF process can potentially be useful in helping to clarify the IPR status of codecs. However, those wheels grind slowly. <br><br><hr>From: <a href="mailto:Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com" target="_blank">Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com" target="_blank">peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com</a>; <a href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">harald@alvestrand.no</a><br>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:38:42 +0000<br>
CC: <a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>; <a href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" target="_blank">dispatch@ietf.org</a>; <a href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com" target="_blank">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [RTW] [dispatch] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Peter, all,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">About the video codec: Are there any arguments on why VP8 would
not have IPR issues? It is available as an open source implementation, but that
does not mean there are no IPR against it. My understanding is that the IPR
situation wrt. VP8 is still unclear and thus risky. The other issue with VP8 is,
as far as I know, the lack of a clear spec out of which independent interoperable
implementations can be created.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So I don’t at least buy the argument that we should choose
VP8 as mandatory to implement video codec because of IPR reasons.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m working on a separate review on Harald’s drafts
(thanks for putting them together) and will come back to the codec issue there in
more detail, but just wanted to respond to Peter’s point here.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> Markus
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;">
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank">dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank">dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Peter Musgrave<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 17 December, 2010 13:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Harald Alvestrand<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>; <a href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org" target="_blank">dispatch@ietf.org</a>; Ted Hardie<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dispatch] Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p>I'd also like to echo Alan's thanks for these drafts. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>The protocol doc is very clear. [If you read only one
dispatch draft this Christmas, make it this one. ;-) ]</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>One observation to the group. The mandatory to implement
video CODEC is VP8 (presumably since it does not have IPR issues - which some
other choices would have). </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Regards, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Peter Musgrave</p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Nits</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Introduction</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 9pt;">s/</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">veichle/vehicle/</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">Section 2
Para "Within each.."</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">s/implementaiton/implementation/</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">Section 4
Para1</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">"such
as" (something missing here?)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">Section 5
Para2</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">"There
is no third mandatory to implement" </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Courier;">? Was
there a mention of a third before. Not sure why this statement is there.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>On 2010-11-10, at 6:34 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:</p>
</div>
<p><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p>This is the overview document for the IETF-related RTC-WEB
work.<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message -------- </p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><b>Subject: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<p>New Version Notification for
draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><b>Date: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<p>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 03:31:05 -0800 (PST)</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><b>From: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<p>IETF I-D Submission Tool <a href="mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org" target="_blank"><idsubmission@ietf.org></a></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><b>To: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<p><a href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">harald@alvestrand.no</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"> </p>
<pre>A new version of I-D, draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Harald Alvestrand and posted to the IETF repository.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Filename: draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols</pre>
<pre>Revision: 00</pre><pre>Title: Overview: Real Time Protocols for Brower-based Applications</pre><pre>Creation_date: 2010-11-11</pre><pre>WG ID: Independent Submission</pre><pre>Number_of_pages: 9</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>Abstract:</pre><pre>This document gives an overview of a protocol suite intended for use</pre><pre>with real-time applications that can be deployed in browsers - "real</pre><pre>time communication on the Web".</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>It intends to serve as a starting and coordination point to make sure</pre><pre>all the parts that are needed to achieve this goal are findable, and</pre><pre>that the parts that belong in the Internet protocol suite are fully</pre>
<pre>specified and on the right publication track.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>This work is an attempt to synthesize the input of many people, but</pre><pre>makes no claims to fully represent the views of any of them. All</pre>
<pre>parts of the document should be regarded as open for discussion.</pre><pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>The IETF Secretariat.</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre> </pre><pre> </pre></div>
<p>_______________________________________________<br>
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</div>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
<br></div></div>_______________________________________________
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<br></blockquote></div><br>