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On 12/21/10 22:46, David Singer wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:021F5744-F0AA-40CF-A755-39EBBF871C4D@apple.com"
type="cite">I have to agree. If IPR issues are what we want to
avoid, VP8 seems like a poor choice (e.g. <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/mpeg-la-looking-at-patents-for-googles-vp8webm-video/">http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/mpeg-la-looking-at-patents-for-googles-vp8webm-video/</a>>).</blockquote>
That article is by now 7 months old (May 2010), and AFAIK, no
specific IPR claims have been made public.<br>
<br>
I wouldn't presume to claim that this proves anything.<br>
<br>
Harald<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:021F5744-F0AA-40CF-A755-39EBBF871C4D@apple.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 21, 2010, at 13:38 , <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:markus.isomaki@nokia.com">markus.isomaki@nokia.com</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
font-size: medium;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:
break-word;" lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi
Peter, all,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">About
the video codec: Are there any arguments on why
VP8 would not have IPR issues? It is available as
an open source implementation, but that does not
mean there are no IPR against it. My understanding
is that the IPR situation wrt. VP8 is still
unclear and thus risky. The other issue with VP8
is, as far as I know, the lack of a clear spec out
of which independent interoperable implementations
can be created.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So I
don’t at least buy the argument that we should
choose VP8 as mandatory to implement video codec
because of IPR reasons.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’m
working on a separate review on Harald’s drafts
(thanks for putting them together) and will come
back to the codec issue there in more detail, but
just wanted to respond to Peter’s point here.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
Markus<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri,sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="border-style: none none none solid;
border-left: 1.5pt solid blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm
4pt;">
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223);
padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma,sans-serif;"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;">dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>ext
Peter Musgrave<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17
December, 2010 13:48<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Harald
Alvestrand<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>;<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dispatch@ietf.org"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;">dispatch@ietf.org</a>; Ted
Hardie<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[dispatch] Fwd: New Version Notification for
draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">I'd
also like to echo Alan's thanks for these
drafts. <o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">The
protocol doc is very clear. [If you read only
one dispatch draft this Christmas, make it this
one. ;-) ]<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">One
observation to the group. The mandatory to
implement video CODEC is VP8 (presumably since
it does not have IPR issues - which some other
choices would have). <o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Regards, <o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">Peter
Musgrave<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Helvetica,sans-serif;">Nits<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Helvetica,sans-serif;">Introduction<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 9pt; font-family:
Helvetica,sans-serif;">s/</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">veichle/vehicle/<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">Section 2 Para "Within each.."<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">s/implementaiton/implementation/<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">Section 4 Para1<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">"such as" (something missing
here?)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">Section 5 Para2<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">"There is no third mandatory to
implement" <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Courier;">? Was there a mention of a third
before. Not sure why this statement is
there.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">On
2010-11-10, at 6:34 AM, Harald Alvestrand
wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif;">This
is the overview document for the IETF-related
RTC-WEB work.<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<o:p></o:p></div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif; text-align: right;"><b>Subject:<o:p></o:p></b></div>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif;">New Version
Notification for
draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00<o:p></o:p></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif; text-align: right;"><b>Date:<o:p></o:p></b></div>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif;">Wed, 10 Nov 2010
03:31:05 -0800 (PST)<o:p></o:p></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif; text-align: right;"><b>From:<o:p></o:p></b></div>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif;">IETF I-D Submission
Tool<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:idsubmission@ietf.org"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;"><idsubmission@ietf.org></a><o:p></o:p></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0cm;" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif; text-align: right;"><b>To:<o:p></o:p></b></div>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0cm;">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman',serif;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no"
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;">harald@alvestrand.no</a><o:p></o:p></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman',serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">A new version of I-D, draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Harald Alvestrand and posted to the IETF repository.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Filename: draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Revision: 00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Title: Overview: Real Time Protocols for Brower-based Applications<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Creation_date: 2010-11-11<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">WG ID: Independent Submission<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Number_of_pages: 9<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">This document gives an overview of a protocol suite intended for use<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">with real-time applications that can be deployed in browsers - "real<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">time communication on the Web".<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">It intends to serve as a starting and coordination point to make sure<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">all the parts that are needed to achieve this goal are findable, and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">that the parts that belong in the Internet protocol suite are fully<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">specified and on the right publication track.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">This work is an attempt to synthesize the input of many people, but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">makes no claims to fully represent the views of any of them. All<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">parts of the document should be regarded as open for discussion.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">The IETF Secretariat.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
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<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<div>David Singer</div>
<div>Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></span>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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