Yes, as the guy who tried to get Speex into the specs years ago, these are exactly the same arguments that I heard then. <br><br>Here's the most simple reason I can imagine to include a 'free' codec: you <b>preserve the option</b> for open source developers to innovate something new and amazing by allowing <b>them</b> to make the choice around IPR. The codec may have patents that read onto it, or it may be clean. Let the developer take the risk - he or she is probably so small that no one would pursue them anyway.<br>
<br>By excluding 'free' codecs from the specifications you force the open source folks to write their own specs. Which they then can try to get through the WG. But as a volunteer, it's all your own effort, no funds to go to IETF meetings and make your case, no way to really move the momentum against the mass of folks who are paid to participate in the IETF. I've always thought that the best way for the big boys to seed innovation and find thee extraordinary Engineers would be for them to actively support the developers out there innovating - including supporting the inclusion of the free codecs in the specs. And if their products supported a way for the end user to load the free codecs themselves (thus placing the risk on the user and not on the vendor) that would be ideal. Just like browsers.<br>
<br>Of course, the reality is that in many cases the owners of the IP around the non-free codecs have a vested interest in not seeing free codecs in the market. I understand that force, as well. It's the IP game, is all.<br clear="all">
<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Greg Herlein | 415-368-7546 | <a href="mailto:4153687546@tmomail.net%20" target="_blank">SMS</a> | <a href="http://blog.herlein.com/" target="_blank">Blog</a> | <a href="http://twitter.com/gherlein" target="_blank">Twitter Timeline</a> | <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/gherlein" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><br>
<br>Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen<br>
<i>- Edward V Berard</i><br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Henry Sinnreich <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:henry.sinnreich@gmail.com">henry.sinnreich@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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<font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">It is interesting, almost funny (or sad depending on the perspective) how the reaction to a _God Forbid_ IP-free video codec is mirroring the opposition to the Internet audio codec. That opposition proved eventually futile and we have now a CODEC WG.<br>
I hope the AD’s will have now the same fortitude as was shown when the Internet audio codec WG was formed. <br>
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I have taken the liberty to copy the CODEC WG and hope they can participate now in the video codec discussion as well.<br>
My apology for the double posting.<br>
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Thanks, Henry <br>
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On 12/21/10 3:38 PM, "<a href="http://Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com" target="_blank">Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com</a>" <<a href="http://Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com" target="_blank">Markus.Isomaki@nokia.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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</span></font><blockquote><font face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font color="#1f497d"><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Peter, all,<br>
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About the video codec: Are there any arguments on why VP8 would not have IPR issues? It is available as an open source implementation, but that does not mean there are no IPR against it. My understanding is that the IPR situation wrt. VP8 is still unclear and thus risky. The other issue with VP8 is, as far as I know, the lack of a clear spec out of which independent interoperable implementations can be created.<br>
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So I don’t at least buy the argument that we should choose VP8 as mandatory to implement video codec because of IPR reasons.<br>
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I’m working on a separate review on Harald’s drafts (thanks for putting them together) and will come back to the codec issue there in more detail, but just wanted to respond to Peter’s point here.<br>
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Regards,<br>
Markus <br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><b>From:</b> <a href="http://dispatch-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank">dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href="mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org" target="_blank">mailto:dispatch-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Peter Musgrave<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 17 December, 2010 13:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Harald Alvestrand<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="http://rtc-web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>; <a href="http://dispatch@ietf.org" target="_blank">dispatch@ietf.org</a>; Ted Hardie<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [dispatch] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-alvestrand-dispatch-rtcweb-protocols-00<br>
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</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'd also like to echo Alan's thanks for these drafts. <br>
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</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The protocol doc is very clear. [If you read only one dispatch draft this Christmas, make it this one. ;-) ]<br>
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</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">One observation to the group. The mandatory to implement video CODEC is VP8 (presumably since it does not have IPR issues - which some other choices would have). <br>
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</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Regards, <br>
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</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Peter Musgrave<br>
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</span></font><font size="0"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Nits<br>
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</span></font><font size="0"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Introduction<br>
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</span></font><font size="0"><font face="Helvetica, Verdana, Arial"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">s/</span></font></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">veichle/vehicle/<br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Section 2 Para "Within each.."<br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Section 4 Para1<br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">"such as" (something missing here?)<br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Section 5 Para2<br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">"There is no third mandatory to implement" <br>
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</span></font><font size="1"><font face="Courier, Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">? Was there a mention of a third before. Not sure why this statement is there.<br>
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</span></font><font size="2"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On 2010-11-10, at 6:34 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:<br>
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This is the overview document for the IETF-related RTC-WEB work.<br>
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-------- Original Message -------- <br>
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