<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><div>You do raise the good question as to whether or not peer-to-peer application-level multicast overlays are in scope or not.</div></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div>I would consider it a victory if we could get unicast working. Multicast seems like a second priority, at best.</div><div><br></div><div>--Richard<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); "><div>Matthew Kaufman</div><div><br><br><hr><b>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Silvia Pfeiffer" <<a href="mailto:silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com">silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Justin Uberti" <<a href="mailto:juberti@google.com">juberti@google.com</a>><br><b>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Stefan Håkansson LK" <<a href="mailto:stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com">stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com</a>>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>, "David Singer" <<a href="mailto:singer@apple.com">singer@apple.com</a>>, "Harald Alvestrand" <<a href="mailto:harald@alvestrand.no">harald@alvestrand.no</a>><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Sunday, October 10, 2010 5:44:02 PM<br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [RTW] List is now open<br><br>It seems to me that works nicely for 1-to-1 RTC. It wouldn't even require introduction of RTP/RTSP but can simply be pushing encoded a/v packets over the network as fast as possible on the given URL, which would then be a UDP URL?<br><br>I guess for multi-peer RTC a different approach on the network would be required or would it be a full mesh?<br><br>Silvia.<br><br>On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Justin Uberti<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:juberti@google.com" target="_blank">juberti@google.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">My idea is that we will tie these various pieces together like a filter chain, i.e.<div><br></div><div><device> -> [encoder] -> [transport] -> [decoder] -> <video></div><div><br></div><div>where the connections between pieces are made by passing URLs around. (i.e. opening a device yields a URL for a stream, which is supplied to the encoder; at the other end, streams coming from the decoder are identified by a URL, which can then be passed directly to a <video> tag or WebGL texture.)</div><div><br></div><div>Other combinations are of course possible, such as direct access to [transport], in the case of a web real-time game, or combining <device> -> encoder -> websocket, for doing live (non-realtime) broadcasts.</div><div><br></div><div>We're still figuring out the right interfaces for encoder/decoder; for transport, hopefully the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://rtc-web.alvestrand.com/papers/juberti-p2ptransport-api.pdf%3Fattredirects%3D0" target="_blank">draft I proposed</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>can serve as a reasonable starting point.</div><div><br></div><div><font color="#888888">--justin</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Stefan Håkansson LK<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com" target="_blank">stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; "><div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">That's right, a lot of things remain regarding protocols and other stuff. But IMHO <device>, StreamAPIs and <audio> and <video> should be part of the puzzle!</font></span></div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">--Stefan</font></span></div><br><div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us"><hr><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Silvia Pfeiffer [mailto:<a href="mailto:silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com" target="_blank">silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>den 11 oktober 2010 01:23<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stefan Håkansson LK<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Harald Alvestrand;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>; David Singer<div><div></div><div><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RTW] List is now open<br></div></div></font><br></div><div><div></div><div><div></div>Hi Stefan,<br><br>I have seen those, thanks. That's actually the reason why I asked: because I have already seen it work with the <device> element and I wondered what the remaining challenges were. It seems there is lots of discussion about protocols and codecs.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Silvia.<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Stefan Håkansson LK<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com" target="_blank">stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; "><div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Silvia,</font></span></div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">you might be interested in some experimenting we've done with media streams and <device>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://labs.ericsson.com/developer-community/blog/beyond-html5-conversational-voice-and-video-implemented-webkit-gtk" target="_blank"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">https://labs.ericsson.com/developer-community/blog/beyond-html5-conversational-voice-and-video-implemented-webkit-gtk</font></a> (you can track back to earlier posts).</font></span></div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">BR,</font></span></div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Stefan</font></span></div><br><div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us"><hr><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rtc-web-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web-bounces@alvestrand.no</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:rtc-web-bounces@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Harald Alvestrand<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>den 9 oktober 2010 10:12<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Silvia Pfeiffer<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rtc-web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web@alvestrand.no</a>; David Singer<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RTW] List is now open<br></font><br></div><div><div></div><div><div></div>On 10/09/10 03:17, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote:<blockquote>Thanks for the general invite!<br><br>I wonder: has the HTML5 device element been looked at (<a href="http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-device/" target="_blank">http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-device/</a>) and what are the problems with that solution?<br></blockquote>We're the ones who have to look - and some on the list have been closely involved with writing the <device> spec. It would be surprising to me if they are not part of the solution - but just part.<br><br>As far as I know, it's still not clear how to tie a <device> to a media stream - given that media streams aren't defined yet, this is not very surprising :-)<br><br><blockquote><br>Cheers,<br>Silvia.<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 5:28 PM, David Singer<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:singer@apple.com" target="_blank">singer@apple.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; ">Cool, thanks Harald<br><br>as I said during the day, I'd like to separate (as much as possible) "why is real-time communications on the internet hard?" (which is true, but a subject the IETF, the ITU, and others are also grappling with) from "what is interesting/challenging about real-time communications *in the web*?" -- which I take to mean in pages shown by a browser.<br><br><br>On Oct 8, 2010, at 4:24 , Harald Alvestrand wrote:<br><br>> Cullen (I think) has changed the permissions on the list, so that now everyone can subscribe, and the archives are open.<br>><br>> If you know of people you think should be on the list, please ask them to subscribe!<br>><br>> The two ways to subscribe:<br>><br>> - Send "subscribe" to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:rtc-web-request@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">rtc-web-request@alvestrand.no</a>, and do what the response says<br>> - Go to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and follow instructions<br>><br>> Let the discussions begin!<br>><br>> Harald<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> RTC-Web mailing list<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RTC-Web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">RTC-Web@alvestrand.no</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web</a><br><br>David Singer<br>Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RTC-Web mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RTC-Web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">RTC-Web@alvestrand.no</a><br><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web</a><br></blockquote></div><br></blockquote><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>RTC-Web mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RTC-Web@alvestrand.no" target="_blank">RTC-Web@alvestrand.no</a><br><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web" target="_blank">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RTC-Web mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RTC-Web@alvestrand.no">RTC-Web@alvestrand.no</a><br><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web</a><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>RTC-Web mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RTC-Web@alvestrand.no">RTC-Web@alvestrand.no</a><br><a href="http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web">http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/rtc-web</a><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>