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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">ISO 639 has never given recommendations involving the specific syntax ll-CC; they have merely suggested the use of an ISO 639 identifier in conjunction with ISO 3166 identifiers – “ll cc”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">RFC 1766 allowed for ISO 639-1 alpha-2 plus ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 combinations. RFC 3066 added use of ISO 639-2 alpha-3. The big change between zh-CN and zh-Hans _<i>sanctioned within BCP 47</i>_ came with the explicit
addition of script subtags in RFC 4646. However, registration of tags with script subtags was permitted prior to RFC 4646. In fact, zh-Hans was registered in the RFC 3066 time frame. It could not have been registered in the initial RFC 1766 time frame since
ISO 15924 did not yet exist (it was published in the final stages of preparation of RFC 3066).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">So, “zh-Hans” would not have been used in the time frame in which RFC 1766 was the current revision of BCP 47. On that basis, if you wanted to refer to the other identifier type as RFC1766, that wouldn’t seem
to me to be unreasonable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Misha.Wolf@thomsonreuters.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> June 13, 2013 8:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> addison@lab126.com; ietf-languages@iana.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: zh-CN etc<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Hi Addison,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The issue is the distinction between the instructions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">1 use this Identifier to indicate that language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">2 interpret this Identifier as indicating that language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Our BCP47 Identifier Type is used to determine the Identifier to be used for 1 above. If we allowed a language to have two Identifiers of Type BCP47, then systems
wouldn’t know which to use for case 1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The reason I was thinking of ISO639-1 is that it does (or used to -- I no longer have a copy of the standard) explicitly recommend the use of ISO 3166-1 Country
codes, to form Language tags of the form ll-CC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The reason I was thinking of RFC1766 is that it based itself on ISO 639-1 and so inherited this, as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> In the first subtag:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> - All 2-letter codes are interpreted as ISO 3166 alpha-2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> country codes denoting the area in which the language is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> - Codes of 3 to 8 letters may be registered with the IANA by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> anyone who feels a need for it, according to the rules in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> chapter 5 of this document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> The information in the subtag may for instance be:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> -
<span style="color:red">Country identification, such as en-US (this usage is<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:red"> described in ISO 639)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">But your suggestion for using BCP47, coupled with something like ALT, ALIAS or LEGACY strikes me as the best way forward
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Misha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Phillips, Addison [<a href="mailto:addison@lab126.com">mailto:addison@lab126.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 June 2013 15:43<br>
<b>To:</b> Wolf, Misha (TR Technology); <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org">
ietf-languages@iana.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: zh-CN etc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Misha,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">“zh-CH” is a valid BCP 47 language tag. Users “hanging on to” the use of the region subtag as indicating script is not an uncommon problem with Chinese tagging, as obviously you’re aware. CLDR specifies an “add
likely subtags” algorithm that transforms “zh-CN” to “zh-Hans-CN” as an aid to matching (see [1]), which a number of us have implemented because of existing legacy language and/or locale tags.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regarding what to call the language+region tag, ISO639-1 seems an unlikely choice, as the “-CN” part isn’t 639-ish and since potentially a 639-2 or 639-3 subtag could appear there. RFC1766 would work, although
that isn’t the most recent pre-current RFC. That would be RFC3066. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">In any case, I don’t think it’s a good idea to encourage the thought that there is “another” language tagging RFC out there, though. Perhaps something like “ALT-BCP47” or “BCP47-ALIAS” or “BCP47-LEGACY”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Addison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Addison Phillips<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Globalization Architect (Amazon Lab126)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Chair (W3C I18N WG)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Internationalization is not a feature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It is an architecture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">[1] <a href="http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/#Likely_Subtags">
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/#Likely_Subtags</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no">ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a> [<a href="mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no">mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:Misha.Wolf@thomsonreuters.com">Misha.Wolf@thomsonreuters.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2013 6:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org">ietf-languages@iana.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> zh-CN etc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Hi folks,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I manage various in-house taxonomies and would appreciate your advice. For each “object” we have our own numeric PermID plus (optionally) one or more Identifiers
of Identifier Types suited to the Object Type. For languages, we have an Identifier Type “BCP47”. In the case of Simplified Chinese, the corresponding Identifier contains the value “zh-Hans”. We’ve been approached by a group which wants us to associate
the value “zh-CN” with Simplified Chinese. We’ve refused to do this using the Identifier Type “BCP47” but have offered to create another Identifier Type to hold this value and similar values which may, from time to time, be needed. I don’t know what to call
this Identifier Type. I’ve considered both “ISO639-1” and “RFC1766”. Your advice would be appreciated.</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks,</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Misha</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">
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