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Hi.<div><br><div><div>On Sep 15, 2011, at 17:48, <a href="mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no">ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Message: 1</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:04:07 +0100</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: Jo?o Miguel Neves <<a href="mailto:joao@silvaneves.org">joao@silvaneves.org</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org">ietf-languages@iana.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Language subtag registration for 1990aolp</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">So here's the (hopefully final) proposal:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>1. Name of requester: Jo?o Miguel Neves</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>2. E-mail address of requester: <a href="mailto:joao@silvaneves.org">joao@silvaneves.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>3. Record Requested:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Type: variant</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Subtag: 1990aolp</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Description: Portuguese orthography based on 1990 agreement.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Prefix: pt</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Comments: Portuguese orthography as defined by an international</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>agreement signed in 1990 and implemented from 2009</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>4. Intended meaning of the subtag:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This variant subtag is intended to apply to text that uses the modern</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Portuguese orthography introduced in an international agreement signed</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">in 1990 and implemented from 2009.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>5. Reference to published description</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of the language (book or article):</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The full text of the Agreement (Acordo Ortogr?fico da L?ngua</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Portuguesa (1990)) as part of the Portuguese Parliament Resolution</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">n. 26/91: <a href="http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1991/08/193A00/43704388.pdf">http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/1991/08/193A00/43704388.pdf</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The official vocabulary is at <a href="http://www.portaldalinguaportuguesa.org">http://www.portaldalinguaportuguesa.org</a>/</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">as defined by the Minister's Council Resolution n. 8/2011:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/2011/01/01700/0048800489.pdf">http://dre.pt/pdf1sdip/2011/01/01700/0048800489.pdf</a></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The full official name of the reform should be stated at least in the comments if not in the description.</div><div>The language of this should be thoroughly proofread by a native speaker of EN.</div><div>"1990 agreement" is very vague language. </div><div><br></div><div>I strongly object to the reference to an "official vocabulary": there is no such thing. There is an online database that contains errors and typos. Furthermore it is not a stable resource and no complete wordlist can be extracted from it. There are at least two commercially available dictionaries in print that could be used as references, provided that the proposal mentions i) that these dictionaries do not coincide 100%, and ii) that these dictionaries do not fulfil the stipulation of the 1990 Treaty.</div><div><br></div><div>The Acordo Ortográfico 1990 is an International Treaty. It should not be called an agreement.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; ">Message: 2</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:32:33 +0100</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: Jo?o Miguel Neves <<a href="mailto:joao@silvaneves.org">joao@silvaneves.org</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: ietflang IETF Languages Discussion <<a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org">ietf-languages@iana.org</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Language subtag registration for 1945colb</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>1. Name of requester: Ant?nio H. Emiliano, Francisco Miguel Valada,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Jo?o Miguel Neves</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>2. E-mail address of requester: <a href="mailto:ah.emiliano@fcsh.unl.pt">ah.emiliano@fcsh.unl.pt</a>,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:fmvalada@hotmail.com">fmvalada@hotmail.com</a>, <a href="mailto:joao@silvaneves.org">joao@silvaneves.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>3. Record Requested:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Type: variant</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Subtag: 1945colb</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Description: Portuguese orthography based on 1945 agreement.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Prefix: pt</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Comments: Portuguese orthography as defined by an international</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>agreement signed in 1945</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>4. Intended meaning of the subtag:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This variant subtag is intended to apply to text that uses the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Portuguese orthography introduced in an international agreement signed</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">in 1945 and implemented from 1945 in Portugal and 1971 in Brazil.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>5. Reference to published description</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of the language (book or article):</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Grande Dicion?rio L?ngua Portuguesa, Porto Editora, 2004</div></blockquote><div><br></div>The full and official name of the reform should be stated.</div><div>The wording should be proofread by a native speaker of EN.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; ">Message: 3</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:50:09 +0200</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: Luc Pardon <<a href="mailto:lucp@skopos.be">lucp@skopos.be</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org">ietf-languages@iana.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: Portuguese subtags</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On 09/14/2011 07:16 PM, Doug Ewell wrote:</div> <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#008040"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Whether</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the dictionary for it is printed in the proper typeface or on the proper</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">paper size to be recognized by Michael as a valid source is totally</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">irrelevant. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I fail to see the relevance of this remark.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In fact, whether or not there is a dictionary at all is</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">irrelevant. The requester must simply provide a "Reference to published</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">description of the language (book or article)". Note that it says</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"article", which seems to imply that the description need not be</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">exhaustive to be acceptable. In fact, BCP 47 3.5 seems pretty clear to me:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>In most cases, reference to an authoritative grammar</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>or dictionary of that language will be useful; in cases where no such</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>work exists, other well-known works describing that language or in</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>that language MAY be appropriate.</div></blockquote></blockquote><div><br></div><div>There are no authoritative dictionaries for the 1990 reform. No well-known publications.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "> It is not acceptable that, if people request tagging for one</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">particular spelling of a language, it is imposed on them that they</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">demonstrate linguistic and political and whatever consensus on all</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">possible spellings of that particular language since Lucy came out of</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Africa. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't see how this remark applies to the present discussion. </div><div>The request by Michael for a specification of the reform seems sensible, since there is a consensus that the text of the Treaty is not enough.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> Actually, sidetracking requests like this is a most efficient</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mechanism to block any and all new registrations.</div></blockquote><div><br></div>Ok. I'm not interested in this type of chit-chat and I did not sign up for this type of discussion. I stopped reading this rubbish right here. Bye.</div></div></body></html>