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<font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">On Aug 27, 2011, at 11:00, <a href="mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no">ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no</a> wrote:</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">------------------------------</font></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Message: 2</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:50:35 +0100</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">From: Michael Everson <<a href="mailto:everson@evertype.com">everson@evertype.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">To: ietflang IETF Languages Discussion <<a href="mailto:ietf-languages@iana.org">ietf-languages@iana.org</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Subject: Re: Language subtag registration for acor1990 (amended from</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">ao1990)</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:08BCFABC-C93A-4E9E-8FF4-767A10699A1A@evertype.com">08BCFABC-C93A-4E9E-8FF4-767A10699A1A@evertype.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">On 26 Aug 2011, at 19:17, Ant?nio H F P A Emiliano (FCSH/UNL) wrote:</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">If it makes good sense to be able to tag the "new" orthography, it makes the same good sense to be able to tag the previous non-Brazilianized orthography.</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Right.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">The way that we have done this before is to have a subtag defined by a reference work, to a particular specification of the orthography. Not to a governmental decree, for instance, but to a (mostly at least) complete instantiation of the orthography in question.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"> </font></span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">I don't know that we need to be able to tag every revision of the orthography, but the pre- and post-"Accord" division is a bit of a watershed.</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">The pre1911 and 1911 division is actually the major watershed in PT, Michael.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">The pre1931 and 1931 division is the Brazilian counterpart. 1931 is *similar* to 1911.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Can Ant?nio and Jo?o point to such authoritative works for each orthography?</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Sure.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">What's your take on my ?systemic approach? and my request/wish for a ?complete? set of subtags?</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">It does stem from some of the stuff I've watched you do for Unicode.</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">To be honest, what I really care about in the short term is being able to distinguish the present, stable European Portuguese orthography from the new Brazilianized "accord" which may be adopted in Portugual. If that means 1911 and 1990, that's fine; compare German.</font></div></blockquote><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Michael I understand the short term need for at least two Portuguese subtags (1945, 1990).</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">I also understand that subtags containing just a date might be frowned upon because they are ambiguous/vague.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">To quote from a previous post of mine:</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">... if letters are felt to be needed I wld say they that shld come after the date: 1990aolp, 1945colb, 1911bop.</font></div></blockquote><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">The letters refer to the *official* name of the governmental specifications of the reforms in Portugal:</font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 14px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: normal; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; ">1911 - Bases da Ortografia Portuguesa (w/ several subsequent ammendments and revisions)</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 14px; "><font color="#333333" style="font: 11.0px Lucida Grande; color: #333333"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">1945 - Convenção Ortográfica Luso-Brasileira (w/ an ammendment in 73)</span></font></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 14px; "><font color="#333333" style="font: 11.0px Lucida Grande; color: #333333"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">1990 - Acordo Ortográfico da Língua Portuguesa (still not fully enforced)</span></font></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 14px; "><font color="#333333" style="font: 11.0px Lucida Grande; color: #333333"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br></span></font></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 14px; "><font color="#333333" style="font: 11.0px Lucida Grande; color: #333333"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">Regards. - A.</span></font></font></div></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">António Emiliano</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Universidade Nova de Lisboa (Portugal)</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">Departamento de Linguística</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><a href="mailto:ah.emiliano@fcsh.unl.pt">ah.emiliano@fcsh.unl.pt</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana">PS. is the format of the messages in this list Unicode-aware? (my diacritics & curly quotes keep disappearing)</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Verdana"><br></font></div></div></body></html>