The information in 639-3 about deu is:<div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); "><table width="100%" class="stripeMe" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">
<tbody><tr valign="TOP" class="alt"><td style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: 10px; text-align: left; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-right-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-bottom-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-left-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); background-color: rgb(243, 238, 223); ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">deu</span></td><td style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: 10px; text-align: left; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-right-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-bottom-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-left-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); background-color: rgb(243, 238, 223); ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">deu / ger</span><a href="#note" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">*</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: 10px; text-align: left; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-right-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-bottom-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-left-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); background-color: rgb(243, 238, 223); ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">de</span></td><td style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding-top: 3px; padding-right: 3px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: 10px; text-align: left; border-top-width: 1px; border-right-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-left-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: solid; border-bottom-style: solid; border-left-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-right-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-bottom-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); border-left-color: rgb(119, 153, 170); background-color: rgb(243, 238, 223); ">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">German</span></td></tr></tbody></table></span></div><div><br clear="all"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; "></span>Identifier:deuName:GermanStatus:ActiveCode sets: 639-2/T and 639-3Equivalents: 639-1: de<br>
639-2/B: <a href="documentation.asp?id=ger" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(51, 102, 153); ">ger</a>Scope:<a href="scope.asp#I" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(51, 102, 153); ">Individual</a>Type:<a href="types.asp#L" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(51, 102, 153); ">Living</a>Denotation: See corresponding entry in <a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=deu" style="text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(51, 102, 153); ">Ethnologue</a>.<div>
<br></div><div>That has:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); "><table><tbody><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; ">
<i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#population" title="Estimated L1 speaker population in the country; ethnic population, monolingual speakers, increasing or decreasing population." style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Population</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">75,300,000 in Germany (1990). Population total all countries: 90,294,110.</span></td></tr><tr valign="TOP">
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#location" title="Locations where the language is spoken" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Region</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Also in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ecuador, Estonia, Finland, France, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Moldova, Mozambique, Namibia, Paraguay, Philippines, Poland, Puerto Rico, Romania, Russian Federation (Europe), Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United States, Uruguay, Uzbekistan.</span></td>
</tr><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#alt_names" title="Other names and spellings of names used to refer to this language. Pejorative names enclosed in quotes and labeled pej." style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Alternate names</span></em></a><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></i></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Deutsch, Tedesco</span></td></tr><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; ">
<i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#dialect" title="Information about the names of dialects of the language, including information on lexical similarity and intelligibility with other varieties if available" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Dialects</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Major related language areas are Bavarian [</span><a href="show_language.asp?code=bar" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">bar</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">], Schwäbian [</span><a href="show_language.asp?code=swg" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">swg</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">], Alemannisch [</span><a href="show_language.asp?code=gsw" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">gsw</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">], Mainfränkisch [</span><a href="show_language.asp?code=vmf" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">vmf</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">], Hessisch, Palatinian, Rheinfränkisch, Westfälisch [</span><a href="show_language.asp?code=wep" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">wep</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">], Saxonian, Thuringian, Brandenburgisch, and Low Saxon [</span><a href="show_language.asp?code=nds" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">nds</span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">]. Many varieties are not mutually inherently intelligible. Our present treatment is incomplete. Standard German is one High German variety, which developed from the chancery of Saxony, gaining acceptance as the written standard in the 16th and 17th centuries. High German refers to dialects and languages in the upper Rhine region. Lexical similarity: 60% with English, 29% with French.</span></td>
</tr><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#affiliation" title="Linguistic classification information from largest, more inclusive, grouping to smallest" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Classification</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><a href="show_lang_family.asp?code=deu" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Indo-European, Germanic, West, High German, German, Middle German, East Middle German</span></a></td>
</tr><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#lguse" title="Use and viability of the language and the use of other languages by the community" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Language use</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">National language. 28,000,000 L2 speakers.</span></td></tr><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; ">
<i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#lgdev" title="Literacy rates, written materials, and use in education" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Language development</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Taught in primary and secondary schools. Fully developed. Bible: 1466–2004.</span></td></tr><tr valign="TOP">
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#writing" title="Writing systems and scripts" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Writing system</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Latin script. Latin script, Fraktur variant, used until 1940. Runic script, no longer in use.</span></td>
</tr><tr valign="TOP"><td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><i><a href="ethno_docs/introduction.asp#other" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 153); "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Comments</span></a></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;"> </span></td>
<td style="font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS', sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: small;">Based equally on East Upper German and East Middle German. Christian.</span></td></tr></tbody></table>
</span></div><div><br></div><div>First, there is nothing in 639-3 that says that the reference to the Ethnologue is normative. (And it would be dangerous if it were normative, since SIL could then arbitrary change the denotation of a language code without any notice (not saying that they would, but they could).</div>
<div><br></div><div>And even if it were normative, there is nothing in the Ethnologue would prevent another split like 639-3 is doing with Latvian. By "prevent", I mean that by applying the same kind of reasoning that led to the Latvian redefinition (instead of just introducing another language code and leaving Latvian alone), one could also justify redefining German.</div>
<div><br></div><div><i>FYI: I shouldn't even bother commenting on this, since in Unicode we have mechanisms in place to deal with this instability, but it is annoying.</i></div><div><br></div>Mark<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 08:03, John Cowan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cowan@ccil.org">cowan@ccil.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Mark Davis â?? scripsit:<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> The way we have it set up, it isn't for us to decide. But consumers of BCP47<br>
> (like CLDR) do have to, if ISO continues to change languages into<br>
> macrolanguages (will German be next?).<br>
<br>
</div>Very improbable, given the description of 'de(u)' in Ethnologue.<br>
Though Ethnologue is no more immune to error than ISO 639 [*], it does<br>
provide the denotation of the vast majority of 639-3 code elements, and<br>
<a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=deu" target="_blank">http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=deu</a> is clearly about<br>
Standard German as spoken from Belgium to Kazakhstan, not any other kind<br>
of German. It would be a massive and unnecessary widening of the term<br>
to turn it into a macrolanguage of any sort.<br>
<br>
[*] For example, the 639-3/RA points out that Ethnologue is incorrect<br>
in saying that the creole of Martinique is Guadelopean Creole French<br>
'gcf'; in fact it is Saint Lucian Creole French 'acf'. A proposal was<br>
made this year to change the name of 'acf' to "Martiniquan Creole French"<br>
on historical grounds, which the RA rejected as insufficiently helpful.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
The Unicode Standard does not encode John Cowan<br>
idiosyncratic, personal, novel, or private <a href="http://www.ccil.org/~cowan" target="_blank">http://www.ccil.org/~cowan</a><br>
use characters, nor does it encode logos<br>
or graphics. <a href="mailto:cowan@ccil.org">cowan@ccil.org</a><br>
</font></blockquote></div><br></div>