<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello All,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I have cc'd the list in light of the
discussion that has taken place there already.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">CE Whitehead wrote:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">>Just a quick question regarding
Change Request Number 2009-012<br>
>Is there any way that Walliser German (Wallisertitsch), and Walser
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">>German can be handled together?
Walser German has an ethnologue code [wae].</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">>Is there a need being expressed
to distinguish Walliser from Walser German?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">>That's the only case that a separate
subtag is in order. If a separate </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">>subtag is not in order, why not
use the ethnologue code as it is not </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">>currently being used as a language
subtag?</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I asked that question of the submitter
(whether the two should be considered the same language) before the proposal
reached its current formal shape and state. This was his reply:</font>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=2>In the 12th and 13th century some people from the
the Valley "Wallis"<br>
in Switzerland have emigrated into Austria, Italy, Germany, and many<br>
other places. They have preserved a very archaic form of the<br>
Walliser-German. I would say that a person from Wallis would not<br>
understand a person who speak Walser-German today. So Walser-German<br>
dialects are earlier branches of the Walliser-German.<br>
<br>
After the emigration of the Walser from the Valley Wallis, the<br>
language have changed over the years. Now we have a group of Walser<br>
dialects and a group of Walliser-German dialects that are similar but<br>
different in the vocabulary and pronunciation.<br>
<br>
Today we have 6 main dialects of Walliser-German in Wallis. They all<br>
understand each other and are very similar, but they have some<br>
differences in the pronunciation and in some parts of the vocabulary.<br>
The 5th, Lötschentaler-Walliser-German is the one which differs the<br>
most from the others, because the native speakers lived in a<br>
side-valley. It was very difficult to get in the Lötschental in past<br>
times.<br>
<br>
1. Gomer-Walliser-German: The words in this form of the dialect have a<br>
lot of "ö"s in it. Example: "Böm" (German > Baum).
In other areas they<br>
are saying "Böim" in which you hear more the "i" and
not the "ö". The<br>
main difference is a vocal shift.<br>
2. Briger-Walliser-German: This is the dialect the most people speak<br>
actually. It is the most neutral because the territory is located<br>
almost in the middle.<br>
3. Saaser-Walliser-German: Similar to the form spoken in Zermatt, but<br>
not so melodic. They have a lot of vocabulary you not find in other<br>
regions.<br>
4. Zermatter-Walliser-German: This form of the dialect has it main<br>
difference in the pronunciation, which is very melodic.<br>
5. Lötschentaler-Walliser-German: The most archaic form available in<br>
Wallis. It's something between the archaic Walser-German and the clean<br>
and clear Briger-Walliser-German. They have also a lot of special<br>
vocabulary.<br>
6. Raron-Walliser-German: This form of the dialect make a lot of use<br>
of the vocal "e". Example: "Ches" (German > Käse).
The most people in<br>
Wallis would say "Chäs" instead. The people in Raron make an
extensive<br>
exchange of the vocal "ä" and replace it with "e".<br>
<br>
This six forms can be sorted in two main groups.<br>
<br>
1. East of Brig : Briger-Walliser-German, Gomer-Walliser-German<br>
2. West of Brig : Saaser-Walliser-German, Zermatter-Walliser-German,<br>
Lötschentaler-Walliser-German, Raroner-Walliser-German<br>
<br>
For translation and language recognition purpose it would be an<br>
overkill to generate 5 or 6 language codes, because they are to<br>
similar and the people living in this region would not differ in these<br>
6 sub-dialects if you would ask them. So one code for Walliser-German<br>
will be sufficient. The translation team will release some guidelines<br>
in time. The form of the dialect found in Brig is one of the most<br>
neutral and is predestined for translation purpose.</font></tt>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The submitter's opening paragraph above
appears to disagree with the statement in the exerpt from the German
Wikipedia:</font>
<br><tt><font size=2>>Speaking purely linguistically, there are no clear
differences between<br>
>the dialects in the German-speaking part of Wallis and those in<br>
>settlements of Walsers who emigrated from the Wallis in the 13th and<br>
>14th centuries and who settled in numerous places in the Alp.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=2>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walliserdeutsch#Walliserdeutsch_und_Walserdeutsch</font></tt>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">in regard to the extent of the differences.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">(Thank you, Phillip, for the link and
for the translation)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The submitter and I also discussed whether
Walliser German should be considered within the scope of Swiss German [gsw]
(as is assumed in the English wikipedia article on Walliser German). The
submitter maintained that this would be incorrect, as well. Please note
that the English article on Walser German incorrectly states that the ISO
639-2 code element is [gsw] and the 639-3 code element is [wae]. That is
not true; the code elements represented by [gsw] and [wae] are siblings
within the standard, but it just happens that [gsw] is also contained within
ISO 639-2. Walser German has no representation in ISO 639-2 below the collective
code element level. In both cases, the "parent" in ISO 639 is
[gmw] West Germanic Languages in ISO 639-5, or the next higher node, [gem]
Germanic languages, in both ISO 639-2 and ISO 639-5.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am giving this background to clarify
that the submitter and I considered these questions, and he did answer
them. That said, it is quite possible that a separate code element for
Walliser German is not the best approach. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks, and please keep discussing,
as long as this may be considered within the scope of this list. Otherwise,
please send your comments or questions to me directly.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">-Joan</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Joan Spanne<br>
ISO 639-3/RA<br>
SIL International<br>
7500 W Camp Wisdom Rd<br>
Dallas, TX 75236<br>
ISO639-3@sil.org</font>
<br>