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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=Section1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A generic tag (“machxlat”?) doesn’t seem like a terrible idea. But it’s also not clear to me how it would be used: would it only be reported to users in some UI, or would other automated processes be used on tags containing this subtag? Is MT important to distinguish from native speakers with bad (non-conventional) spelling and grammar, or from 2<sup>nd</sup>-language speakers with bad spelling and grammar, or even from non-standard dialects (which may differ considerably from standard usage)?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Debbie Garside<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 09, 2009 6:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'ietflang IETF Languages Discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Machine Translation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The following is part of a conversation I have been having with a couple of colleagues and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on whether a generic tag could be registered for machine translated text? In the past we have steered away from generic tags (such as western).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>****<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>However, we are concerned that a lot of MT produced Welsh could appear<br>on the web. Google's translation into Welsh isn't perfect by a long<br>shot. Previous so-called attempts have been a lot worse but have been used :<br><br> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/benbore/240597433/" title="http://www.flickr.com/photos/benbore/240597433/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/benbore/240597433/</a> (just one of many)<br><br>and blogs MT'ed into Welsh outnumber those originally written in Welsh<br>when searching in Google.<br><br> e.g. <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=chyfieitha+dudalen&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8" title="http://www.google.com/search?q=chyfieitha+dudalen&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8">http://www.google.com/search?q=chyfieitha+dudalen&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8</a><br><br>This would not be great news. We hope with this development that some<br>can be educated to use such a service responsibly :<br><br> <a href="http://murmur.bangor.ac.uk/?p=99" title="http://murmur.bangor.ac.uk/?p=99">http://murmur.bangor.ac.uk/?p=99</a><br><br>However, at the very least, this could frustrate our (and others) work<br>and efforts e.g. collecting original Welsh texts from the web as a corpus.<br><br>An idea we had, if this does not already exists for other languages<br>(though languages supported by MT to date have been 'larger' and more<br>robust), was whether ISO 639 could be used in the future to produce<br>codes (or extensions) for tagging text/language as being from an MT<br>system. Hopefully the provision of codes or meta data could facilitate<br>MT providers to implement these so that such texts can be excluded in<br>certain applications. (including search engines!)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>And further….<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>****<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>However, in our case we would welcome a further distinction of MT for Welsh. Clearly there must be a distinction made between 'MT' from InterTrans and original/proper Welsh. <br><br>But we might want to one day want to distinguish even between MT providers - cy-mt-intertrans, cy-mt-google and cy-mt-apertium. Some might be more reliable than the others.<span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Your thoughts would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Debbie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Debbie Garside<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<br>Checked by AVG.<br>Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 15/05/2009 06:16</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>